FTE is Fing stupid

[Lazortag]

Originally Posted by Llabak [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This has presented itself in a number of cases. BDA has done it to TMO, TMO has done it to BDA, and honestly if any of the smaller guilds were on the ball they'd be doing it to both of us.

I'll stop you there. Not to nitpick, but we don't not FTE snipe because we're not "on the ball", it's because we think it's incredibly lame, futile, and anti-competitive. We've never considered it, we never will, because it's idiotic beyond words. I only speak for my guild but I'm sure Acyrid and other small guilds would say the same.

[Daliant17447]

FTE sniping is real easy to avoid or overcome. If you move in to engage and another guild snipes FTE, you back out, camp and let that guild wipe. FTE sniping is never really an issue if you have someone in position to take FTE at a moments notice when your guild is ready to engage.

Trak for example, have a necro FD under trak, when you guys are ready, have that person stand and immediately DA. Or have a monk FD within jav range and when you are ready to engage have that person stand and throw a jav. Anyone attempting to steal your FTE won't be able to react fast enough to do so.

I think the FTE rules on this server are fine and allow for healthy competition. An FTE "shout" would be nice though. The only time the FTE rule is stupid is when you have 2 guilds logged in sitting on top of a spawn point. Then it just comes down to who gets lucky with RNG and its a waste of everyone's time. In these situations it would be better if it was just a straight up dps contest and the guild with the best KS group wins.

[Tarathiel]

Originally Posted by Daliant17447 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So when competing normally (camping out buffed, batphone, log in, group up and engage faster than other guild)

i think this is the dumbest form of competition imagined, not flaming you or anyone. its just that it doesnt seem like much fun. we at BDA have been doing this on and off for various spawns we wish to "compete" against and many of us are already burnt out on it. its not fun(at least not for me, or alot of the people i play with). where is the real challenge? the only people that are really being challenged are our poor trackers who have to sit in these zones for obscene amounts of hours each day just for the hopes that their batphone will get our quicker than the next guys. and once that batphone goes out said raid target is dead within 30 seconds to a fully buffed zerg force. it just seems like that time could be better spent. then to top it off everytime a raid mob spawns a GM has to be called in to check logs just to make sure that the guild with the raid force in zone got the first hit? basically, the rules fully encourage and condone what would classically be referred to as "kill stealing." there has to be a better way for us to do this.

[quido]

I thought it was pretty fun when you sniped FTE earlier and we never went in. If you managed to do the same to us, you'd probably think it was fun too.

Next time we wipe you might get your chance! Don't fuck it up.

[Daliant17447]

Originally Posted by Tarathiel [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

i think this is the dumbest form of competition imagined, not flaming you or anyone. its just that it doesnt seem like much fun. we at BDA have been doing this on and off for various spawns we wish to "compete" against and many of us are already burnt out on it. its not fun(at least not for me, or alot of the people i play with). where is the real challenge? the only people that are really being challenged are our poor trackers who have to sit in these zones for obscene amounts of hours each day just for the hopes that their batphone will get our quicker than the next guys. and once that batphone goes out said raid target is dead within 30 seconds to a fully buffed zerg force. it just seems like that time could be better spent. then to top it off everytime a raid mob spawns a GM has to be called in to check logs just to make sure that the guild with the raid force in zone got the first hit? basically, the rules fully encourage and condone what would classically be referred to as "kill stealing." there has to be a better way for us to do this.

So what exactly would you call "good competition" if not racing to engage a mob before another guild does? I agree that 4 day spawn windows are too long, but having the spawns be static 7 day would just result in 100 people sitting on the spawn point ready to beat the mob down the second it spawned.

You weren't around to experience the days of TR vs TMO on Trakanon but it was a rush. Getting a trak batphone and logging in knowing that you would be engaging pretty much the second you got in zone, sometimes having only 20 people or less when engaging, scrambling to form groups, knowing that if you rushed the engage too much you would wipe and the other guild would get a free kill, but it if you weren't fast enough you would also lose - that shit was fun.

[Tarathiel]

Originally Posted by Daliant17447 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So what exactly would you call "good competition" if not racing to engage a mob before another guild does? I agree that 4 day spawn windows are too long, but having the spawns be static 7 day would just result in 100 people sitting on the spawn point ready to beat the mob down the second it spawned.

You weren't around to experience the days of TR vs TMO on Trakanon but it was a rush. Getting a trak batphone and logging in knowing that you would be engaging pretty much the second you got in zone, sometimes having only 20 people or less when engaging, scrambling to form groups, knowing that if you rushed the engage too much you would wipe and the other guild would get a free kill, but it if you weren't fast enough you would also lose - that shit was fun.

while i can see where that could have its fun moments unfortunately thats just not how it really goes down anymore. i like the idea of a rotation with a 20 min to engage stipulation, and then to spice things up even more we have a "no poopsocking" clause. all this means is that instead of parking our mains 50ft. from traks lair on poop mountain we park them in trakanon's teeth, we then have 20 min from the time trak spawns to batphone, move a down a raid force, buff and engage. it would open up the playing field a bit and give us room to develop different strategies besides "buff, camp, batphone, kill" obviously this isnt a perfect solution and may still lead some perceived leapfrogging incidents or fte snipes, but it just seems a bit more challenging and alot more fun than the current situation

[YendorLootmonkey]

Originally Posted by Daliant17447 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

FTE sniping is real easy to avoid or overcome. If you move in to engage and another guild snipes FTE, you back out, camp and let that guild wipe. FTE sniping is never really an issue if you have someone in position to take FTE at a moments notice when your guild is ready to engage.

If you can tell who actually got FTE, yes. However, don't sit here and tell me you can, when there have been multiple instances of GMs having to go back through encounter logs to determine FTE and re-awarding loot.

Don't tell me the mantra isn't "turn in your epic items ASAP so the GMs can't take them away" on a questionable FTE.

Having raid mobs shout/indicate FTE is the only way to go to prevent the FTE drama. Then, the guild without FTE can do what you said above. Unfortunately, I've been told Velious is the priority vs. implementing anything that would lessen GM involvement in the raid scene. Right now, since FTE is questionable, the only option is to stay and finish the kill and ask for a review of the encounter logs... which is stupid.

[Splorf22]

Or you could have simultaneous repops, and the thrill of trying to take down targets as fast as possible in the hope of getting more than your fair share. I'm sure no one has suggested this before.

[Tarathiel]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Or you could have simultaneous repops, and the thrill of trying to take down targets as fast as possible in the hope of getting more than your fair share. I'm sure no one has suggested this before.

this would require coding and dev involvement which like yendor has stated is not a priority right now(thankfully!!!! yay velious!!!) what the OP has suggested requires neither GM nor Dev involvement just a little bit of respect and honor among players.

[Kraftwerk]

Originally Posted by YendorLootmonkey [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Unfortunately, I've been told Velious is the priority vs. implementing anything that would lessen GM involvement in the raid scene.

As an aside, the other way of looking at that is when Velious comes out there are tons more raid targets and things to do, so while we're all occupied with non poopsocking endeavors they can come up with good plans to stop the FTE madness.

Also I was there during that 110 people in OS shitfest last Sunday. If the lag hadn't spiked everyone out Trak would've died in like 5 seconds and then GM petition for FTE. Doesn't TMO want us in VP, then they can train us for legit and kill us. I like your idea Berty, even if I don't raid much so my opinion is far from mattering.