MIN/MAXING A ROGUE'S GLOVE SLOT

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by EdTuBrutus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Actually it's worse like that. At least with Str and Dex there is a detectable (but tiny for most classes) difference from large amounts. Agi has NO DETECTABLE, PARSABLE value over 75. None.

Not classic then. Rogues should get the equivalent of 12 worn AC for exceeding 99 agi (big whoop :P).

[EdTuBrutus]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not classic then. Rogues should get the equivalent of 12 worn AC for exceeding 99 agi (big whoop :P).

I don't recall that, at all. And from the rest of your posts I'm fairly skeptical about anything you add to the thread.

One of the biggest problems with Agi (apart from it not doing anything) is that it changes the "AC" number on your character sheet but it is not actually adding anything which leads to many of the myths. For example a character with 1000 "AC" on the character sheet and 100 Agi will take less damage than a character with 1000 "AC" and 255 Agi.

The thing that is most shocking to me, as a recent returner, is that after 17 years this concept is not ubiquitous and there is still possibly a large majority of players running round thinking that stats matter.

[Jimjam]

I'm aware of mitigation and avoidance AC being lumped together for displayed AC.

I'm not talking about agi increasing 'avoidance' AC, I'm talking about the rare instances it increases 'mitigation ac'. If you google EQ live dev posts about AC you will see they sometimes mention rogues, monks and beastlords get a class bonus to worn AC. Of course the rogue bonus isn't well known about; they aren't that interested in the mechanics of tanking and against many mobs (high or low level) 12 worn equivalent isn't going to make a difference.

Sorry if I was unclear or if you just assume people don't know what they are talking about instead of reading/interpreting correctly [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.].

[Jimjam]

from live, don't know if it exists here:

Now we move onto rogues. If you are a rogue and you are above level 30 and your 'Functional Agility' is greater than 75 you get AC bonuses! They are broken down more easily as an equation than in words:

LevelScaler = PlayerLevel - 26

If Agility < 80: ACBonus = (LevelScaler * 1) / 4

If Agility < 85: ACBonus = (LevelScaler * 2) / 4

If Agility < 90: ACBonus = (LevelScaler * 3) / 4

If Agility < 100: ACBonus = (LevelScaler * 4) / 4

If Agility >= 100: ACBonus = (LevelScaler * 5) / 4

If ACBonus > 12: = 12

This adds on to your worn, not avoidance AC. Obviously not a hugely meaningful amount but it existed).

[EdTuBrutus]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

from live, don't know if it exists here:

Now we move onto rogues. If you are a rogue and you are above level 30 and your 'Functional Agility' is greater than 75 you get AC bonuses! They are broken down more easily as an equation than in words:

LevelScaler = PlayerLevel - 26

If Agility < 80: ACBonus = (LevelScaler * 1) / 4

If Agility < 85: ACBonus = (LevelScaler * 2) / 4

If Agility < 90: ACBonus = (LevelScaler * 3) / 4

If Agility < 100: ACBonus = (LevelScaler * 4) / 4

If Agility >= 100: ACBonus = (LevelScaler * 5) / 4

If ACBonus > 12: = 12

This adds on to your worn, not avoidance AC. Obviously not a hugely meaningful amount but it existed).

You had said it was a bonus at 99, using these maths it's not. At L60 they are capped at 81 Agility ((34*2)/4)= 17 > 12. The mechanic is idiotic enough to be believable as something which was implemented by the EQ Devs.

I would love to have some of the original Devs explain what they intended stats to actually do. It just seems to be a glaring screw up, or that they didn't understand how their own melee mechanic worked. There had to be SOME sort of intention for stats to be meaningful, afterall there is the entire Disempower Line of SHM spells (not to mention the idiotic Rage Line).

If the intention was that stats should be a small bonus for end level, fair enough. But that doesn't actually tally with a game which has the Haste and Slow mechanics, especially with the absolute power they gave to Slow and the bug they never fixed with Haste). A lot of the imbalances can usually be explained by the moronic focus of the game on PvP before launch, but this isn't one of those - Haste and Slow are as imbalanced in PvP as PvE.

[Jimjam]

If we are going to be pedants I said the agi needed for max bonus was over 100, and you do get the bonus at 100+, even if at lvl 60 the bonus is the same as at 81 agi. At lower levels 81 isn't enough to cap out!

You said no bonus at all after 75, but as the maths shows there is a bonus after 75 for rogues as 81 is a higher number than 75 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]. /pedantry

It's obvious to me that in classic devs did their best to make gear largely unimportant (tiny gains for +stats until the highest levels, pretty low AC hard caps going up to level 50, even the best ratio weapons before dragons (which weren't itemised at release) were not that much better than fine steel and so on). Unfortunately the Devs realised people were complete pixel addicts so tried to make stats rain from the dragons/planes/kunark onwards, even though the fundamental mechanics of the game were against this.

[EdTuBrutus]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If we are going to be pedants I said the agi needed for max bonus was over 100, and you do get the bonus at 100+, even if at lvl 60 the bonus is the same as at 81 agi. At lower levels 81 isn't enough to cap out!

You said no bonus at all after 75, but as the maths shows there is a bonus after 75 for rogues as 81 is a higher number than 75 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]. /pedantry

Well pedantically its 81 at 54 and 91 at 46. However, that was never my point and you're misunderstanding what i meant. The basic premise is still the case. Once Agi is 75, you can forget about it.

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's obvious to me that in classic devs did their best to make gear largely unimportant (tiny gains for +stats until the highest levels, pretty low AC hard caps going up to level 50, even the best ratio weapons before dragons (which weren't itemised at release) were not that much better than fine steel and so on). Unfortunately the Devs realised people were complete pixel addicts so tried to make stats rain from the dragons/planes/kunark onwards, even though the fundamental mechanics of the game were against this.

That may be part of it. But it still doesn't explain why Slow and Haste (especially Haste as it could be obtained from items) were so devastatingly effective.

[Jimjam]

Just because I made a point of interest about a minor "big whoop [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]" technicality you may not previously known about does not mean I misunderstood nor disagree with the premise that agility over 75 is unimportant...

[vouss]

A lot of the imbalances can usually be explained by the moronic focus of the game on PvP before launch, but this isn't one of those - Haste and Slow are as imbalanced in PvP as PvE.

?

[skarlorn]

quick update, borgnach now wears Sporali gloves. thanks for checking in.