How was /list received on Green?

[magnetaress]

Worst idea ever.

[Castle2.0]

A: "People cheated."
B: "Proof?"
A: "My feeling of jealousy because I was unable to get my list item, but others did."

This ^

[YendorLootmonkey]

Originally Posted by Castle2.0 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A: "People cheated."
B: "Proof?"
A: "My feeling of jealousy because I was unable to get my list item, but others did."

This ^

The only list camp I did was the beads camp, and I ended up pulling holgresh outside the cave for 22+ hours straight because I was often the only one with track in the group, so I did it legit... but don't act like there's no proof out there that tools were developed to cheat /list. One can easily be found by googling terms you would expect to have to google.

[Byrjun]

Originally Posted by sajbert [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

the drop rates (non-classic I’d wager) were so low

Oh they've definitely tinkered with the drop rates. When P99 originally launched the manastone was the common drop which I believe was classic-accurate. But then you ended up with people like Penoy who farmed bags full of the things.

It's seems counter-productive to make these items much rarer than they should be (increasing camp time) while also implementing systems to try to fairly distribute the items. I get that knowledge of the game has a huge impact on things (evil eye wasn't getting farmed anything close to 24/7 back in the day) and that they're trying to control the influx of powerful items into the economy, but it seems like the balance isn't quite there yet.

I'm sure this was already discussed at length years ago (and I missed those discussions) but I'm not sure why they couldn't just limit how many of each item an account can loot within a certain time frame. For example, once you loot a manastone no characters on that account can loot another manastone for 30 days (or whatever). Yes there's ways to get around this by constantly PLing new characters to camp more items but it would still significantly slow down the rate at which a single person can monopolize any particular item.

And while we're at it, get rid of the rule that allows people to give camps away to whoever they want. People should be required to hand off their camp to whoever has been waiting for it the longest. That should just be the way that all camps work.

Doing these two things wouldn't solve the problems entirely but I think they'd go a long way to making the game a bit more healthier and welcoming to people who aren't the uber elite no lifers.

[Fammaden]

Well they already had to change beads to magic because of pickpocketing, might as well make MS lore and no drop also.

[loramin]

Just want to reiterate that switching to randomness solves nearly everything people complain about.

Want to take a break and not sit there for 24+ hours? Great: take your break, and when you come back you have just as much random chance as when you left.

Are people cheating list afk checks? Well, even if they aren't, everyone hated afk checks ... but in a random system, there are no afk checks. Your "afk check" is that you could win the roll, but if you're afk and don't kill the mob in X minutes, there's another roll and you lose your chance.

Is some low-level sitting in the manstone list? Great! If they win the random roll, they have X minutes to kill the mob ... and then if they can't, there's another random roll. Everyone else is only inconvenienced X minutes, and pretty soon people will learn there's no point in having a low-level sit-in line.

Same deal for beads camp: you can sit there and not help, but then there won't be any random rolls and you'll be sitting a long time. Everyone at the camp has a stake in clearing the holgresh, because everyone has a chance of winning the random roll.

Now, I'm not against making these items lore, and obviously the Holgresh /list boundaries could use some improvement, but overall I think the vast majority of /list issues would be solved with a random system.

[red_demonman]

List was flawed in that it required people to unhealthily stay up for over 24hrs to get the item. Some of these lists were hitting 3+ days (manastone) which requires swapping or cheating.

The other issue with the list is the minimum levels. A lot of times you had people show up that just could not manage the camp at level 35, this was more an issue at rubi bp camp.

A lot of this could be mitigated if they wanted to just increase the % chance for the item to drop and keep the current system or replace it with a system that requires whoever is #1 on list to be able to kill it or be removed and allow #2 and beyond to afk.

[PabloEdvardo]

Originally Posted by Castle2.0 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A: "People cheated."
B: "Proof?"
A: "My feeling of jealousy because I was unable to get my list item, but others did."

This ^

This person definitely didn't run a python app with an imaging library that automated inputs after OCRing the dialog or anything.

It's definitely not published out on the internet or anything.

Definitely not! [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Obvious cheaters aside, the /list system was the only reason I was able to acquire almost every campable legacy item I wanted to get.

The greatest problems in my opinion aren't with the list system, it's with drop rates. Realizing that being even 6th in a normal group to camp a manastone might take you 24+ hours to get your drop makes you realize how unhealthy the game's drop rates are when played modern day by players who know how valuable the items are.

If p99 wanted to re-create the classic experience they would massively increase drop rates, because nobody was doing these camps for 60 hours back in classic, and for people who didn't account share (like me), having to stay up for 30+ hours at a time for a video game is just asking for a premature IRL death on their hands.

[magnetaress]

Best option is leave items in game (no legacy) . Make them all droppable and lootable in pvp. Make everyone pvp.

[Swish]

Originally Posted by red_demonman [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

List was flawed in that it required people to unhealthily stay up for over 24hrs to get the item.

"Back in the day" if you wanted a cleric epic you were doing this if you weren't in a big guild.