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  #771  
Old 05-25-2016, 03:19 PM
Gorillas Gorillas is offline
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Originally Posted by Nirgon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
rotation or quit


they quit


any other hot threads on the horizon?
Yah Lord Sparrow, give me back my buff timer you damn masochist
  #772  
Old 05-25-2016, 05:05 PM
Jarnauga Jarnauga is offline
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thread about BDA's death more alive than red

that should tell you something
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  #773  
Old 05-25-2016, 05:18 PM
ArumTP ArumTP is offline
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Originally Posted by Raev [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Basically at the time the R/C system was implemented, there were three classes of guilds:
  • C (TMO/IB): capable killing targets 24/7 within 5 minutes
  • R+ (Taken, BDA, Divinity): capable of killing targets 24/7 within an hourish
  • R- (A-Team, Europa, AG, Asgard, etc): capable of killing targets in prime time within an hourish

So obviously each of the groups in R wanted the class to fit them.

The R- guilds thought of R as a way for everyone to experience the raid content without all of the normal insanity (that BDA is whining about in this very thread). Therefore they believed there should be some sort of way for guilds who weren't 24/7 zergs to join the rotation successfully, and proposed a number of mechanisms (dark hours etc).

The R+ guilds thought of R as a training ground for C. They wanted to practice the encounters without chain failing vs TMO/IB and then move up to C, so they were against a rotation in the first place. Oh wait, that's not what happened at all. The R+ guilds just wanted maximum free pixels.

Basically the problem with the R/C system was that Rogean just assumed that successful R guilds would move to C so they could do the C content, but due to the lockout system it was impossible for a successful R guild to get enough Trak teeth to compete in VP (Trakanon being one of the toughest encounters to get right, so the FFA ones were very hard), so there was no carrot to go against IB/TMO (1/9 Trakanons = 3 teeth per month, so 1-2 years to get a reasonable number of keys).
C- (Asgard) Said fuck this non-rotational R shit, we'd be better going for targets on quakes while IB/TMO is in vp. Got more shit that was getting in R when R+ guilds were crushing it. On the back end was better prepared for velious competiton, and had no disillusion on how hard it would be to compete on the high end.
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  #774  
Old 05-25-2016, 05:22 PM
Swish Swish is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xexbis0 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Your knowledge of the raid scene at that time and the mechanics is pretty embarrassing Swish.
I dont know what you think I don't know, but my knowledge of the raid scene at the time was great.

Now I've said that, prove me wrong factually. Bear in mind I was present when BDA brought over 80 people to a Trakanon attempt. "attempt", lol.

Did Moonlight Cruaders and Supremacy die out largely because the gatekeepers of the casual rotation said they were too casual...while being "casually hardcore" themselves? Yes. Think setting Gorenaire (on the attempted revision) as a test mob for a casual rotation said a lot about minimum standards required...cant have actual casual guilds in a casual tier can we?

Did Chest brag that BDA were kings of Class R? Yes.

Did BDA collapse the rotation on purpose? Yes, but they tried (and failed) to pin it on Divinity so the pixel grab wouldnt look so obvious.

There's lots of other actions and events I can and will keep reminding BDA of as long as they continue to argue it. Arguing with facts is quite fruitless but its nice to see them arguing that black is white etc.

Inb4 more more pages worth of anti-Swish rhetoric. Shouldnt you all be working however many game hours to make sure you have enough plat to say "actually we dont $$ for a subscription"?

Compare that to having a job for a moment.
  #775  
Old 05-25-2016, 05:27 PM
Ravager Ravager is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArumTP [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
C- (Asgard) Said fuck this non-rotational R shit, we'd be better going for targets on quakes while IB/TMO is in vp. Got more shit that was getting in R when R+ guilds were crushing it. On the back end was better prepared for velious competiton, and had no disillusion on how hard it would be to compete on the high end.
The fact that you're not disillusioned even now speaks more of you than it does of "competitive raiding" on this server.
  #776  
Old 05-25-2016, 05:30 PM
Swish Swish is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravager [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
The fact that you're not disillusioned even now speaks more of you than it does of "competitive raiding" on this server.
Ravager: Me and all my BDA circlejerk chums have collectively decided we're the normal ones and the remaining p1999 population (still ~1200) are all the crazies. PS - Sirken is really regretting not giving our guild some raid concessions [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]






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  #777  
Old 05-25-2016, 05:45 PM
Mistle Mistle is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swish [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
I dont know what you think I don't know, but my knowledge of the raid scene at the time was great.
You do not demonstrate this in any of your posts, which are almost uniformly incorrect, and probably maliciously so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swish [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Now I've said that, prove me wrong factually.
Again? It's not like it was hard before.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swish [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Bear in mind I was present when BDA brought over 80 people to a Trakanon attempt. "attempt", lol.
No relevance to any point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swish [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Did Moonlight Cruaders and Supremacy die out largely because the gatekeepers of the casual rotation said they were too casual...while being "casually hardcore" themselves? Yes. Think setting Gorenaire (on the attempted revision) as a test mob for a casual rotation said a lot about minimum standards required...cant have actual casual guilds in a casual tier can we?
Incorrect. MC and others died out because of the greed of guilds like OMNI who double dipped the system without acknowledging that by helping a guild do an encounter they could not do themselves they should have been considered a single allied entity and therefore only occupy one slot in the rotation. The incapable guilds should have examined the consequences of trying to exploit the system if they wanted to stay independent and raiding.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swish [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Did Chest brag that BDA were kings of Class R? Yes.
You make a completely meaningless comment, but since it is already an aside, I find it hilarious how jealous of Chest you really are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swish [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Did BDA collapse the rotation on purpose? Yes, but they tried (and failed) to pin it on Divinity so the pixel grab wouldnt look so obvious.
Incorrect. The rotation was collapsed because it was being exploited, not because of a pixel grab. No acknowledgement that the rotation was BDA's idea, among others, in the first place, and you have produced no evidence whatsoever for BDA's motivation of a "pixel grab" with that in mind; if BDA cared that much, they wouldn't have helped form the rotation in the first place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swish [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
There's lots of other actions and events I can and will keep reminding BDA of as long as they continue to argue it. Arguing with facts is quite fruitless but its nice to see them arguing that black is white etc.
No, you just post lies. Dozens of them a day. No single person could ever hope to match the insane amount of time you put into your temper tantrum. You adhere to the idea that the more you post a falsehood, the more it becomes true, but almost to a person everyone in this forum already knows what really happened, and it's why even after tens of thousands of posts you are still considered the raid scene version of Greengrocer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swish [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Inb4 more more pages worth of anti-Swish rhetoric. Shouldnt you all be working however many game hours to make sure you have enough plat to say "actually we dont $$ for a subscription"?
I don't mind correcting your incessant bawling as long as it doesn't take too many minutes out of my day. Shitposters like you are pretty easy to dismantle, the only issue is the sheer volume.
  #778  
Old 05-25-2016, 05:51 PM
Mistle Mistle is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swish [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Ravager: Me and all my BDA circlejerk chums have collectively decided we're the normal ones and the remaining p1999 population (still ~1200) are all the crazies. PS - Sirken is really regretting not giving our guild some raid concessions [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Fun fact: Project 1999 hit a low on google trends only seen once since Feb 2010 (for one month four years ago) for the month of May.

But yes, we have decided we're the normal ones. The crazy ones post shit like this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swish [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
One of the best things about leveling my cleric (2013) was, ironically...sitting in Naggy's lair for 16 hours waiting to hand the pearl in.
"Normal".
  #779  
Old 05-25-2016, 05:54 PM
Mistle Mistle is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xexbis0 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
If the rotation had still existed, I have a hard time believing when things turned into the absurd shitshow we have now that the rotation wouldn't have been reinstated in some form or another.
Well, believe it:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirken
Chest, i have always been open and honest about my opinions, and have always expressed them as my opinions. the issue is that not just me, but the majority of the staff simply do not want to see a rotation, or a class system (at least the same class system we previously had). some people (and i'm not saying you fall into this category) simply want things like instanced raiding, and to the staff (ie: not just scumbag Sirken) that's not EverQuest. EQ is and always has been a timesink. Staff doesn't view the timesink as a problem, it views the training, the griefing, and the fuckery of game mechanics as the problem.
Context note: Chest had never asked for instanced raiding or a rotation, it was just the way the conversation had gone previous to that.
  #780  
Old 05-25-2016, 06:11 PM
Raev Raev is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xexbis0 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
My self introspection comment was that R+ really waited a very long time and put in effort to make it work and very, very little was done to meet in that middle ground in talks. Over a year is pretty damn patient to me. You've seen Taken up close and personal in being in Awakened. They had resources. They had players. You've been in R- in A-Team.
Well being in Taken was definitely an eye-opener, because Taken is way more hardcore than Rampage. I remember Planarity/Unicity pleading on the Rampage forums against huge resistance from both officers and members to do the Plane of Sky near the end of Kunark . . . and yet Taken is doing it 1 year into Velious. Rampage never really did VP after Velious launched, yet Taken has never budged from doing it. Rampage did the Plane of Growth like 4-5 times, Taken did it every week. Awakened probably has more ex-Taken FTErs than ex-Rampage. So Taken has always been a C guild in terms of mindset, size, and 24/7 presence. Their problem was that they didn't have the ability to beat IB/TMO face to face on anything harder than COH and pulling outdoor dragons. And part of that was that they simply came late to the party, and part of that is that Taken never really had a disciplined approach to the game.

I think the staff actually created R for BDA and Taken. Their thought was that if those guilds just had a chance to practice the encounters with a little less pressure, they would improve and then move to C. And I think Taken's big mistake was agreeing to the R rotation in the first place. They should have said 'fuck this, we are going to kill whatever we want and then move to C'. And if they had had a more disciplined approach to the game, like 'we are going to fraps IB/TMO competing for Trakanon and time ourselves on our R targets and figure out where we are lacking and improve' they could have been in C within 6 months of the R/C system being implemented. And I don't think the casual scum guilds would have held that against them.

And I think if BDA had been a true champion of a different playstyle like they pretended to be, the staff would have respected that too. Imagine BDA didn't constantly leapfrog other guilds in Fear or Chardok, if they had really worked hard to get Moonlight Crusaders and Dolj into the rotation (like not seeding them at the bottom, maybe inviting some people along to show some strategies). Instead of pushing and pushing against dark hours and so on BDA could have been going to the staff and asking for a reduction in variance for R.

The reality is BDA is simply the worst C guild Project 1999 has ever seen. I remember seeing them sock VS and Trakanon with 40+ when the rotation ended. They had the trackers, they had the the 24/7 presence, they had the size, and they bullied anyone when they could get away with it. Divinity was a close second, and they are gone now too.
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