ToV and pulling mobs.

[Drakakade]

Originally Posted by Erati [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The sample size rage is a lil redic, from the sounds of it, had Divinity died where they lay and not wait around at the zone out to allow the mobs wiping the raid to then attach on to the Taken Aaryonar fight ( we have fraps of Divinity mage standing at the zone out, waiting for mobs to be in sight, then zoning out....as mobs become unaggro then add, we have his name too ) , Aary would have been dead and no other QQ about NTOV trains etc would have even existed.

.

I cannot really comprehend this sentence, Eratani. What are you saying?

First, we did not wait around at the zone out lol, when Taken pulled Aary to zone out they wiped our raid force (40 of us) mid-way in West. You cannot pull Aary from North without dragging a train through west. And that wiped our raid.

Our mage is factioned so no idea what you are talking about there. After you guys killed 40 of us, we coh'd to Exit or popped up at exit to see Taken trying to kill Aary while simultaneously training away the adds on Aary up the pipe (thus killing more Divinity draggers because you flopped them or died trying to train away mobs). Aary was at 90 percent when Taken started to wipe.

When I talked to a Taken officer he told me, "Rampage trained you, not us." Which is a pile of crap because Taken was fighting Aary at West Zone out, not Rampage. Clearly, Taken pulled Aaary to West Zone out and they wiped most of the zone doing it.

TL;DR: Pint got it right: Kill the dragon in the wing it spawns in. You don't need a meeting to agree to that point.

[Erati]

there are several other aspects of raiding in there (most notably during Sim repops when all is up) that i feel need to be examined by all if we are set on hindering guilds abilities to contest spawns during normal variance hours without having to

a. poopsock the spawn point
b. pulling on top of one another in 1 spot per wing

Right now its very much a race for all no matter where u are in ToV- if we cut off pulling tru wings we now are forced to have 300 people in one area each pop

that presents its own set of problems

I can PM u the fraps im talking ab later Drak - dont wanna derail this too bad w play by plays ab what did or didnt happen

[Artaenc]

Originally Posted by Erati [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If we would like to have a full fledge ToV rule ledger created - we need to sit down and discuss stuff in Skype.

The sample size rage is a lil redic, from the sounds of it, had Divinity died where they lay and not wait around at the zone out to allow the mobs wiping the raid to then attach on to the Taken Aaryonar fight ( we have fraps of Divinity mage standing at the zone out, waiting for mobs to be in sight, then zoning out....as mobs become unaggro then add, we have his name too ) , Aary would have been dead and no other QQ about NTOV trains etc would have even existed.

I was not around for this so dont know the full on reasons or locations of each raid force to analyze whether Divinity made it a bigger issue than it should have been ( if a guild has FTE on a mob why cant forces simply log out and wait for pathing mobs to return if they are worried about trains from other wings )

We are gonna need some Sim Repop gentlemans rules in my opinion if we are wanting to really hamstring guilds creative strategizing in normal ToV spawns...We cannot have 3-5 raid forces be forced to stack on top of one another....that would be a HUGE de-syncy mess...pulling outside of wings ( while dragons are not perma rooted ) allows for guilds who are not poopsocking spawn points to have a chance at an engage.

I think some of the biggest issue is the fact that raid forces at the door seem to very easily pick up aggro from shit that paths back...from last week's Rampage video simply opening the door once can wipe anyone set up there.

That spot is very high risk - so I dont know if we can really base ToV softcoded engage rules around the premise that the raid forces at the NTOV safe spot past the door, need to be 100% safe all the time even after a pull fails.

Camp out your force and log in when its safe. No reason to pick up extra trains- not your FTE should not have aggro....let the mobs reset

I am willing to sit down and discuss some better rules for server health tho, ToV is not going anywhere.

Asking guilds to camp out because you got FTE is very disorienting and harmful to the multiple competing guilds. It would mean whoever can logon and reconstruct groups/etc first wins. Something else needs to be done but I completely disagree with the tough luck we got FTE you camp out and get disoriented while we check if we can kill this dragon and control our train. I don't know what it is but it can't be this.

[Erati]

i dont think you are following

I am not saying camping is the answer or only option- its simply AN option

The trains from a week ago Ikky were bc aggro was not cleared n u guys opened the door n trained yourselves

This week - Div was in the line of fire and yes were subsiquently trained by the pull. All I read here is guilds vying for the ability to raid the way they are currently comfortable operating and not really taking any blame for

1. The location of their raid force w respect to how mobs return
2. Getting social aggro on pulls they are not a part of

I too would love cleaner ToV- we are less than 3 months in...i dont think everyone has even figured out their own guilds rhthym just yet

Forcing everyone to mobilize to 1 spot is not the answer bc once we do that- we will just b forced to poopsock

if you are in the middle of the zone and not by a zone out- theres potential for danger from a multitude of ways. If you are not contesting the mob and know the train will path back tru- camping is the easiest

if you are contesting a mob that was alrdy pulled well then im not sure a bunch of rules will fix the results of your pullers tossing in aggro on trains they didnt intialize

Im not being super helpful providing much substance for those wanting blood for this- but I think some sensible ToV rules overall would go a long way- and restricting pulling (while these dragons are not rooted) is not sensible as it means poopsocking wins...wonder which guilds have been poopsocking the most in there and want rules to help that strat?

inb4 Taken just wants to b able to pull dragons bc thats our strat

we are all in this for our own interests and its obvious

[Detoxx]

Originally Posted by Erati [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If we would like to have a full fledge ToV rule ledger created - we need to sit down and discuss stuff in Skype.

The sample size rage is a lil redic, from the sounds of it, had Divinity died where they lay and not wait around at the zone out to allow the mobs wiping the raid to then attach on to the Taken Aaryonar fight ( we have fraps of Divinity mage standing at the zone out, waiting for mobs to be in sight, then zoning out....as mobs become unaggro then add, we have his name too ) , Aary would have been dead and no other QQ about NTOV trains etc would have even existed.

I was not around for this so dont know the full on reasons or locations of each raid force to analyze whether Divinity made it a bigger issue than it should have been ( if a guild has FTE on a mob why cant forces simply log out and wait for pathing mobs to return if they are worried about trains from other wings )

We are gonna need some Sim Repop gentlemans rules in my opinion if we are wanting to really hamstring guilds creative strategizing in normal ToV spawns...We cannot have 3-5 raid forces be forced to stack on top of one another....that would be a HUGE de-syncy mess...pulling outside of wings ( while dragons are not perma rooted ) allows for guilds who are not poopsocking spawn points to have a chance at an engage.

I think some of the biggest issue is the fact that raid forces at the door seem to very easily pick up aggro from shit that paths back...from last week's Rampage video simply opening the door once can wipe anyone set up there.

That spot is very high risk - so I dont know if we can really base ToV softcoded engage rules around the premise that the raid forces at the NTOV safe spot past the door, need to be 100% safe all the time even after a pull fails.

Camp out your force and log in when its safe. No reason to pick up extra trains- not your FTE should not have aggro....let the mobs reset

I am willing to sit down and discuss some better rules for server health tho, ToV is not going anywhere.

Problem is we were recovering, so we dont have time to camp out, wait to see if you kill it, camp back in, rebuff, med and all the while something else could spawn. When we pulled Gozz to NToV, its path back was not in direct danger of wiping any raid.

[Erati]

I had no issue u guys pulling Gozz last night and again I dont have a perfect solution to make things better, but believe me, turning ToV into a poopsock fest w only 1 spot to pull North mobs too is not a healthy way to make raiding better in there

We all wanna enjoy the game without wrecking everyones fun but at same time there are basic mechanical issues asking the majority of the zone to be in a small corner for most the day

[arsenalpow]

Temple of Veeshan Raid Target Rotation Sign Up Sheet
Rampage
Forsakengard
Taken
Divinity
BDA

[Erati]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Temple of Veeshan Raid Target Rotation Sign Up Sheet
Rampage
Forsakengard
Taken
Divinity
BDA

Chest - the Father of Rotations.

If we are serious about this...I think it actually wouldnt be all that blah [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Could even have a few dragons serve as the 'benchmark' for signing up- Aaryonar a good one

[Artaenc]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Temple of Veeshan Raid Target Rotation Sign Up Sheet
Rampage
Forsakengard
Taken
Divinity
BDA

Better add Anonymous/AG/Europa and soon Clue soon as they level up to that list because I believe they have enough numbers that they can muster if there is no competition. Asgard and Forsaken can muster enough numbers if it's going to be a rotation. So here is the new list...

Asgard
Forsaken
Anonymous
Clue
Europa
Azure Guard
Rampage
Forsakengard
Taken
Divinity
BDA

So every 2.75 months a guild can own ToV for a week? Let's write a rough draft and fill in the details. Very excited about this...

[arsenalpow]

Lol, just illustrating that this isn't going to be a simple fix. I'm pretty confident that most servers didn't have 6 or more ToV capable guilds simultaneously.