Discussion about what constitutes a camp and how to hold a camp

[Swish2]

One of the great features about the red server is you don't need to pre-read an encyclopedia of rules, and rules made about those rules before you play.

[Teppler]

Originally Posted by fastboy21 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're trying to extrapolate an answer to a specific question, to which you want a certain answer, by asking questions that aren't relevant.

Yes, someone solo'ing can probably claim the named in HS north. No, a group probably can't come in and take over. Howling Stones north isn't Sebilis crypt (no matter how much you want it to be).

The rules don't exist so that folks can get away with doing things that are against the spirit of the rules.

This is why the rules are left general and GMs are given the latitude to examine situations on a case by case basis, use precedent, and apply the general principles of the rules.

Well there are 3 named spawns in north and a boss.

How about basement where there aren’t even any names? Can someone solo basement and claim it?

That would be a soloer monopolizing group content which you said is a no-no. See this is where it gets difficult.

How about this- does it matter how crowded a zone is at any given time? Is that something to take into consideration?

The other side of the coin is that there’s other places for groups to exp too. It’s not like groups are running out of level appropriate camps to do.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by fastboy21 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The only thing that will adequately handle someone who actively seeks to be a jerk is a direct GM babysitter. The server doesn't have enough of these...and the few we have don't deserve to be treated like babysitters for man children that want to shove as many pixels into their fat faces as possible.

You don't need a rule clarification. You need to return to kindergarten on the day they taught everyone about sharing and playing nice. Stop wasting people's time with your man child lifestyle.

[Teppler]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Soloers can absolutely run around leaving their camp behind, as long as they get back in time. As I said about Droga, you can kill the Chief, run to the other end of the zone, possibly kill the Soothsayer (if he's unclaimed) and run back. It wouldn't matter if a full group of players had all been waiting at the chief camp the entire time you were gone: as long as you got back before the Chief spawns it's still your camp.

Where it gets murky is what happens if you come back after your camp respawns. This certainly should encourage people who are eager to snipe someone else's camp to wait a more than reasonable amount of time before taking over, because their "reasonable amount of time" might not be the same as a GM's.



Technically the crypt group can't. Let's say a group calls CE, goes to the crypt, finishes it off, and starts walking over to Emp, but at that moment another group logs in outside the Emp room and goes inside first. That group gets the Emp, because it doesn't matter what the Crypt group may have called, the login group was the First to Engage the unclaimed Emp.

Or at least, if you assume the staff would consider C and E as separate camps. You never know for sure. Anyhow, the important thing is, 99.9% of the time no one else wants Emp, so that's why everyone calls both C and E at once.

The other issue is the one person, one camp principle. Like I said before, GMs define indoor camps however they want, so there doesn't have to be a one player to one named ratio ... but even if there was, a group of 6 can claim 6 of the 7 CE spawns, and no one else wants the 7th mob.

So even by the most lawyerly count, a group of six players can claim 6 mobs and then FTE the (unwanted) 7th. But you as a solo player can only claim one spawn (Heiro). You can kill Duke or anything else while your Heiro is respawning, but only if no one else has claimed it and you engage first.

... again, as I understand things.

If you get most lawyerly, no, groups cannot maintain presence on 6 or 7 spawns. They have to group up and work together. Melees need to be DPSing on top of mobs. Bards need to be close for their songs. Chanters need to be close to CC. And so on. So technically, you would need 3 people at a minimum to do 2 spawns points if you want to maintain a presence on top of spawn points.

I mean it's pretty clear through this discussion that solo, duo, trio have less rights than groups. And that's fine if that's the way it is. At the end of the day we are at the mercy of the staff. But lets just come out and say it. Solo, duo or trio people can be pushed around and out of content that they were holding if a group desires to take it from them in certain situations. And in the same way, it can't be done to groups.

It sounds like you think not all GMs will rule that way but lets say 50% of them do. If you roll the dice and challenge groups as a soloer and 50% of the GMs disagree, you are going to get in trouble pretty quick. Maybe not the first occurrence but by occasion 3-4 the odds are you will be.

[Rang]

Originally Posted by I Tell The Truth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Squats in heiro camp.
Teppler lawyers it from group.
Logs off. Sleeps alone.

[Tuurin]

Do you guys not read? The link to the rules was already posted, and seems pretty clear.
https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...d.php?t=132299

That being said, you can absolutely "camp" mobs, and you cannot steal another players 'camp'. In general, if the placeholder or placeholders for a spawn are being killed, that 'camp' can be considered held by the player doing the killing so long as they are keeping the placeholders (or the room if there are no placeholders) cleared, within the same zone, do not die or log off. You do not necessarily need to be at the spawn point to call it 'claimed' while it is uncontested, however, if someone else wishes to contest the 'camp' you do need to return to the 'camp' and maintain a presence at or very near the spawn(s) in order to hold it. You cannot hold multiple 'camps' if another group wishes to contest one that you are holding. The player holding multiple 'camps' retains the right to choose which 'camp' to give up.

Soloer/group is treated the same- if a "camp" is contested, you have to work to figure it out and compromise. Nobody get to "steal" a camp from someone who's already there, but nobody gets to tell someone/a group to fuck off if they are asking to share/contest the camps. Whoever was there first gets first dibs on the named spawn, but have to share the overall spawns if another group asks to.

Not sure what's vague about this.

[Baylan295]

Originally Posted by Teppler [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Can no one truly claim north in howling stones if they are soloing? Can a group come in and take over?

I have, myself, kept down almost all of North short of the boss room. If a group wants to come in, North is considered a camp by... everyone I know, and they can have the boss room. In fact, usually I would offer the boss room. If they wanted to be dicks and take one of the side rooms, I guess they would be entitled to do it, but neither the loot nor the experience would be good enough for a group in any of the side rooms.

[Valakut]

Originally Posted by Teppler [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Recently I was in a discussion about camps on every quest and it was amazing to me everyone seems to have a different idea even though camps are often highly contetested. It would be good to have the rules plainly in front of us so everyone can be on the same page.

I’m going to start with my interpretation and where it comes from.

From what I understood anything can be a camp. Any 1 mob anyone chooses, they can lock it down if they choose to do so.

It is your camp as long as someone else wasn’t there first. You keep the camp as long as you are keeping your mobs engaged within a few minutes of them spawning. If someone wants the camp and you are sitting around while the mobs you are claiming are up, you forfeit camp. This shouldn’t be any different whether you are a group, solo, duo or trio. You can claim any mob(s) you want as long as you are keeping them down.

This is drawn from this:



I don’t see anything about having to be right on top of spawn points, just that you have to keep your spawns killed.

This ruling allows most camps to work as group content. Off the top of my head I think of crypt, howling stones north and west.

Many people think you have to be right on top of spawn points to claim a camp. I don’t see the wording in the quote I posted to support that. Is it right? I’m not sure where it comes from but it would be a ruling that would kill the crypt camp for groups.

Imagine your group is camping crypt for hours but you can’t possibly stand on all your valuable spawn points. Imagine you’ve been camping crypt for hours and shaman a decided to sit on hiero spawn, shaman b decides to sit on duke spawn and shaman c decides to sit on emp spawn.

I don’t believe the rules allow this to happen but maybe I’m wrong.

"From what I understood anything can be a camp. Any 1 mob anyone chooses, they can lock it down if they choose to do so. "

- This only counts for outdoor zones

"You keep the camp as long as you are keeping your mobs engaged within a few minutes of them spawning. If someone wants the camp and you are sitting around while the mobs you are claiming are up, you forfeit camp. This shouldn’t be any different whether you are a group, solo, duo or trio. You can claim any mob(s) you want as long as you are keeping them down."

- I would not expect a few minutes from anyone. I'd say if you got a full minute that would be very generous. If you are in an outdoor zone you can camp/claim 1 spawn and if you're duo or trio then each person can hold down 1 spawn only if they are 100% only killing that one mob. If you're killing pathers or other random shit while trying to camp that single spawn then you've forfeited the camp. If you are in an indoor zone then there are generally certain mobs associated with camps that are within proximity of the named. If you can burn the named but can't clear the trash and maintain the camp then you aren't camping it. If you can kill the entire camp but don't touch the trash then you are camping it.

Actively camping and maintaining a camp are two key adjectives that are slightly open to interpretation. This is where player made agreements come into play. If 2 people are at odds on the camp rules then they should try to come to a mutual agreement even if the agreement is unorthodox. If no agreement can be made and a GM is involved then the GM can do whatever they want which may include neither person being able to camp that area for any given period of time.

If you live by the lawyerquest then you will die by the lawyerquest. Typically certain guilds have reputations for being fair or sharing and so you work extra hard to share with them. Other guilds are turds and so you should not give one inch because you won't receive the same consideration. This makes camp ruling difficult for the unguilded but there is a guild for everyone out there.

[Rang]

You guys are trying to rationalize with a person who was one of those kids in class who keeps raising their hand to correct the teacher because they "know better". He tries to claim both heriophant and duke while not clearing ICGs or the other skeleton names and thinks that is legit because he had been there "for hours". Hate to break it to ya neckbeard Teppler, but that's not how camps work.

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[Teppler]

Originally Posted by Baylan295 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I have, myself, kept down almost all of North short of the boss room. If a group wants to come in, North is considered a camp by... everyone I know, and they can have the boss room. In fact, usually I would offer the boss room. If they wanted to be dicks and take one of the side rooms, I guess they would be entitled to do it, but neither the loot nor the experience would be good enough for a group in any of the side rooms.

Crypt is no different but people are saying a solo person can't claim all of crypt or eventually a GM is going to rule against you. If you're going to have a ruling like that to crypt, I really don't understand the consistency is saying a solo person can camp all of howling stones north. Or any other camp that works like this for the matter.... and there's a lot of them.

Do you have to be on top of your 1 spawn or not as a soloer? Or 2 spawn points as a duo etc... Howling stones north has multiple valuable rooms, just like crypt.

I've done the whole north wing and have kept all the spawns down too which is why I specifically asked and am using North Wing of Howling Stones as an example.

You're absolutely right that everyone plays that way to interpret North as one camp and a soloer can claim it but through this topic it's being established that a group has a right to push you around in that situation because at the end of the day a solo person can be bogged down to only 1 spawn point.