Why do guilds use DKP?

[Zekayy]

Originally Posted by Zekayy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

because someone could be in the guild a year and be your top raider and try to get an epic or piece they want, and then a mob pops someone logs on that hasn't logged on in 6 months or one that just joined and wins the random its a slap in the face of your main tank or main cleric or people that have been there awhile thats why the /random situation is shit verus dkp do not @ me

this is the /thread

[Evia]

Originally Posted by whyyoukickmydog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Nobody is trying to change your mind. Nobody here agrees with your stance, and it's obvious you are new to P99 raiding, so really, you're just trolling for attention.

Not trolling, this is a genuine question of mine. I like a lot of the responses I'm getting on both sides of the discussion. Im just trying to understand why it's the standard adopted loot process. (Shrugs)

[turbosilk]

Originally Posted by Evia [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I never said dkp was complex, only that I don’t understand why universally accepted and used. I’m not saying /random is necessarily the answer either but I find it odd nobody wants to question the narrative. I think dkp could be retooled or revamped completely.


@nexii doesn’t /random favor everybody?

I like the concept of dkp, as it factors in assistance to the guild through other means like tracking and such, but it adds an unnecessary component to the game. I’m just saying couldn’t there be a system that didn’t need to add a new system?

Because DKP is a merit based system. This is a difficult concept for more and more people to understand.

[Boptop]

It helps reduce membership complaining

[pogs4ever]

guilds are a scam for the officers to get more pixels. #stopthesteal

[Littul Jonn]

How have you guys let this thread go on for 6 pages? It’s real simple, here’s a scenario;
- Your guild calls Sevalak spawn let’s get him!
- You play a paladin so you want his loot
- He doesn’t drop shit for anything else so none of your clerics, warriors, monks etc log in

Good luck incentivizing anyone to show up for raid mobs they don’t need drops from

[Jimjam]

From a behavioural perspective dkp is operant conditioning. Each time you attend a raid you receive a reward, which encourages that behaviour to be repeated (see skinners rats).

[Fammaden]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

From a behavioural perspective dkp is operant conditioning. Each time you attend a raid you receive a reward, which encourages that behaviour to be repeated (see skinners rats).

Yeah, and its not a bad thing.

When you have rewards that are highly desirable and also suffer from scarcity, people in general act like assholes. They are selfish, ruthless, and irrational in the pursuit of the scarce reward.

DKP is a way of channeling all that selfishness into behavior that benefits the community (guild) unit as a whole. If you're going to regularly raid high end content in an MMO, some form of a token economy like this has proven to be the most sensible approach for literally the entire history of the genre.

This is why loot council is seen as something only for tight knit small groups of people. If you have a smaller community who agrees on a common goal and mostly knows each other well and operate with mutual respect, then you can just award loot based on a form of "need" that meets both the needs of individuals and the group. The bigger a guild gets the more clique-y and impersonal it becomes and then requires a more objective and transparent approach to distributing the prizes, or everyone will start to hate and distrust each other and slowly leave for a guild that does DKP.

In Everquest, you need numbers. While many mobs CAN be killed with lower numbers, the reality of bagging them consistently and repeatedly tends to require bigger rosters, so loot council for our purposes is out.

The failures of using RNG, aka the game's own /random roll system, have been well documented in the thread and really should be self-evident to anyone who has played enough to be posting on this forum.

If raiding isn't something you're interested in doing, that's perfectly understandable. But after twenty plus years I don't know how people can't recognize WHY dkp is the default approach to distributing raid loot. But I think OP is trolling.

[druidbob]

Originally Posted by Littul Jonn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How have you guys let this thread go on for 6 pages? It’s real simple, here’s a scenario;
- Your guild calls Sevalak spawn let’s get him!
- You play a paladin so you want his loot
- He doesn’t drop shit for anything else so none of your clerics, warriors, monks etc log in

Good luck incentivizing anyone to show up for raid mobs they don’t need drops from

Does no one show up because they want to kill a dragon? Isn't that the whole "fun" part of the game, killing big monsters with your guildmates? I dunno maybe my casual scum is showing, but people should raid because they enjoy raiding. And perhaps a guild shouldn't go out of their way to develop a loot system that caters to people who would not even log in for a raid unless it directly benefits them.

[Vaye]

Originally Posted by druidbob [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Does no one show up because they want to kill a dragon? Isn't that the whole "fun" part of the game, killing big monsters with your guildmates? I dunno maybe my casual scum is showing, but people should raid because they enjoy raiding. And perhaps a guild shouldn't go out of their way to develop a loot system that caters to people who would not even log in for a raid unless it directly benefits them.

The problem stems from having guilds that are too big. Being apart of a zerg force that trivializes content sounds pretty boring to me which is why I've never joined a zerg guild. People do indeed seem to forget that this is a GAME and is supposed to be fun. They're too busy trying to impress their 13-year-old selves with their pixel gains and treating the game like a damn job to compensate for something.

A small guild raiding where people depend on you for your role and you're actually expected to play the game is what's fun for me. Fun should always be the goal, not pixels. So it doesn't really matter what ends up dropping or how "fair" it is that one person got an item over another, especially if they're a friend and a solid guildie--you should be happy they are progressing, and satisfied you had fun and your teamwork paid off.

If you have a situation where people don't come to raids unless it benefits them, then you have a shitty guild with trash people, but that's expected in big guilds where ppl don't really care about each other and are just in it for the loot. I have respect for Savage's old system where people had to duel for drops. The better player wins. Seems fair to me.

Hope this clears things up.