<Aftermath> to join AEGIS Alliance

[Mblake81]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Makes perfect sense.

I'm glad it doesn't!

[Nexii]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Exactly ... except I'm thinking just a little bigger than "eliminate race starting points".

It feels like we're all thinking in a box, like the only way things can possibly be is to have races and race lines and race rules and race everything.

This server is full of intelligent and creative people. I find it offensive that every last one of them turns off that intelligence and creativity and just accepts that things are the way they are, when using even a fraction of that collective intelligence/creativity could almost certainly produce a better system.

It's because the only alternatives people come up with are instancing (won't happen) and enforced rotations (probably only 25% of endgamers want that, won't happen)

Quakes replacing raid repops would be a pretty good solution. All guilds get something and you can prioritize how you like.

Haven't come up with too much else. Allowing guilds to camp wherever would still heavily favor large guilds, but it would allow medium sized guilds the chance to park at midrange targets and potentially win the mobilization races

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Nexii [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's because the only alternatives people come up with are instancing (won't happen) and enforced rotations (probably only 25% of endgamers want that, won't happen)

Quakes replacing raid repops would be a pretty good solution. All guilds get something and you can prioritize how you like.

Haven't come up with too much else. Allowing guilds to camp wherever would still heavily favor large guilds, but it would allow medium sized guilds the chance to park at midrange targets and potentially win the mobilization races

I think there's a wealth of other options. Just one very simple example (which I'm sure everyone can shoot holes in) would be to force guilds to farm some ultra-rare item and then use it to spawn raid targets (possibly individual targets or possibly entire zones like ToV). Whatever you hate about that idea, at least it would make raiding (classically) PvE, instead of (unclassically) PvP (in PvE "racing sheep" clothing).

But again, my point is that there's lots of possible ideas, and undoubtedly many are better than our current system. Finding the best to use on P99 will require a healthy dialogue, but until this server (or at least this forum) can figure out how to have that dialogue in a constructive fashion, none of those ideas will come to light.

But I do sincerely respect you Nexii for engaging and not just spouting nonsense like some posters [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Mblake81]

Those items would be permacamped. Are they random drops off any mobs? which ones and which zones as a spreadsheet would be put out with the percentages of which so the farm crews can get the most possible spawns.

[mycoolrausch]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think there's a wealth of other options. Just one very simple example (which I'm sure everyone can shoot holes in) would be to force guilds to farm some ultra-rare item and then use it to spawn raid targets (possibly individual targets or possibly entire zones like ToV). Whatever you hate about that idea, at least it would make raiding (classically) PvE, instead of (unclassically) PvP (in PvE "racing sheep" clothing).

But again, my point is that there's lots of possible ideas, and undoubtedly many are better than our current system. Finding the best to use on P99 will require a healthy dialogue, but until this server (or at least this forum) can figure out how to have that dialogue in a constructive fashion, none of those ideas will come to light.

But I do sincerely respect you Nexii for engaging and not just spouting nonsense like some posters [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

IDK if you've been paying attention to the server lately, but the bulk of the would-be raiders that would have been interested in such changes have simply solved the problem for themselves by joining riot, or have left for mangler and soon classic wow. Who else besides you cares?

[loramin]

Originally Posted by mycoolrausch [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Who else besides you cares?

I'd argue most of the server, and maybe even most of RnF, cares ...

... but, whenever anyone tries to discuss it their thread gets "RnF-ed up". And as everyone who reads RnF knows, this is a place of zingers and insults, not constructive dialogue.

But look, every one of us was new here once upon a time, and we all had that moment where someone had to break the news to us: "yeah, the server's just like you remember in '99 ... except the raid scene, that's totally different".

I think on that day most us internally made the [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] face (or maybe the [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] one), because it wasn't the EQ we remembered.

It's my hope that everyone who had that reaction does still care, and that if we can just figure out how to elevate the dialogue, that we've got enough smart and creative people that we absolutely could figure out a better system.

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ok thanks Tina Fey, but I wouldn't quite go that far ...

[Fammaden]

Replacing respawns with all quakes is definitely the best and simplest proposal here. As mentioned, this is the one time that actual competition happens right now. A quake forces the reigning mega guild (at the moment Riot) to actually prioritize. Windows heavily favor whoever has the numbers. Quakes do something that spawn windows cannot, they require EVERY guild to prioritize their targets, instead of just camping one to three windows at a time.

But when it quakes EVERYONE gets a piece. Sure smaller/less experienced guilds are essentially taking scraps, but those scraps are being socked by the big guild if there's nothing in window and more casual guilds don't have infrastructure to care about socking fucking Talendor. Yet on quake they can find him uncontested for hours.

The way things are right now, guilds are finding themselves unable to even do their usual HoT runs at times. Because if nothing is in window, or even if only one thing is in window, then there's always plenty of Riot members happy to farm SOMETHING.

Rotations could absolutely work in place of this, it would take a lot of up front work and some creativity, but once established could be mostly automatic. The problem is that for a rotation to happen every guild has to buy in and make the player agreement that staff will enforce. There will never be a reason for the prominent mega guild to buy in to any rotation because they stand to lose more than they would gain. Today its Riot who would block that plan, yesterday it was AM, in the future it will be < Someone Else >.

[lifewater]

Originally Posted by Nexii [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

enforced rotations (probably only 25% of endgamers want that, won't happen)

Meh.. I don't really think this is true. If people were really into pure competition, you wouldn't have rival guilds stalking each others every pull, citing rule 87, article 4, sentence 7 of the raiding bylaws at the drop of a hat, and then demanding a concession (which is the literal antithesis of competition). And this isnt specific to any guild, anyone attempting to go for raid mobs does it.

Its so stigmatized to talk about rotations and instances within the p99 community, that it becomes pointless to even mention it. Because the small portion of the loudest voices will scream over you.

It feels like people just want loot, and it doesn't matter how its acquired as long as they have it.

~Shamfu

[Mblake81]

Originally Posted by lifewater [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Its so stigmatized to talk about instances within the p99 community, that it becomes pointless to even mention it. Because the small portion of the loudest voices will scream over you.

<---- this guy right here

[Hyjalx]

If we can't simulate quakes, making everything respawn at the same time is probably the only solution to make things as classic as possible. Would take some coding work that I am not well versed in though. Not sure how possible that is.

If we cant hit a button to simulate the live patches, its the only thing I can think of.

Remove rooted dragons, FTE races, and variance, and respawn everything Saturday or Sunday. And just end the madness. My 2 cents.