Greens sounds so pleasant

[Tethler]

Originally Posted by Osprey39 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That's a strawman argument. Even according to your own observations, nobody has suggested something like that.

Go browse some more threads on these forums. I haven't seen that exact arguement (as I stated), but I most certainly have seen arguements using that line of reasoning.

The server already has non-classic X, so we may as well just add non-classic Y.

[Osprey39]

Originally Posted by DMN [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Well, with a couple hours of bard under your belt and as a 2 month veteran of p99, I'm sure your grasp of the issue is adequate to come to some very strong conclusions/predictions.

Not.

Certainly entitled to your opinion and all, but I'm pretty sure bards are going to be a problem on green.

The rule about being able to pull from bards kiting more than 4 mobs is virtually meaningless. On green, without outside help, only druids/shamans/bards will realistically be able to peel stuff off from a bard who who isn't dumb. And even to peel them off you have to find them first.

Look, I admitted I don't know much about the class and yeah, I've only been on p99 for a short time but I have played a fair amount of EQ over the years. I'd be happy to listen to those that do know more about bards than I do. Your reply was kind of a veiled insult but I'll have the conversation with you anyway if you're willing to share your knowledge.

I made 3 points that you did not refute in this reply so please do so know because I'm genuinely interested in knowing how bards will overcome these 3 things and get out ahead of the crowd in leveling:

• Bards don't get their PBAE DoT spell until level 2
• Bards don't get Selo's until level 5
• Even once they have their PBAE DoT, it does 3 points per tick which is barely above mob health regen rate

I'm not being flippant here, I'd really like to know how bards are going to overcome those three things and outpace everyone else in leveling. For at least one level, bards will be whacking away with their short sword just like everyone else.

When they get that PBAE DoT at level 2, it doesn't get much better for them. It's just a minor damage add at that point because the damage it does sucks. You still can't really kite with it until you get Selo's at level 5. I watched one bard recently trying to mass kite fire beetles in the Qeynos newbie yard with the DoT and no Selo's. It did not end well for them.

What I have trouble seeing is this: If kiting with that PBAE DoT is such a powerful tactic, how come I don't see more of it on Blue right now? My highest level characters here are in the 20s so I've seen plenty of low level bards xping. I've only seen bards successfully pulling mass groups of mobs twice and both times it was in NK where there is lots of wide open space for them to do it in and plenty of social mobs that would join in the chase just by dragging mobs over them.

So please, change my mind. Tell me why I'm wrong. Don't just dismiss what I said by pointing out my lack of time on a bard. Explain to me how bards are going to get out in front of the crowd in xping when they can't even really kite effectively until level 5. By the way, by the time level 5 rolls around, full, balanced groups are going to be able to go into places like CB and BB and xp with better ZEMs and I guarantee there won't be any bards swarm kiting in places like that.

[DMN]

I didn't answer those points because I not only didn't make those initial claims, thus had no reason to address them, but I also realized he was exaggerating for effect.


Bard kiting is less of problem on blue for a couple reasons. First, is that there are so many large zones available now with kunark and velious out that they have less of an impact. That's not going to be the case on green. Second,anyone who wanted to play a bard and swarm kites is already close to level 60 or at level 60, so you aren't going to see them swarming.

Bard kiting was so problematical on blue that they already nerfed it once and even had to cook up special rules regarding it. This problematical nature is going to be magnified several times over on green.

[Osprey39]

Originally Posted by DMN [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I didn't answer those points because I not only didn't make those initial claims, thus had no reason to address them, but I also realized he was exaggerating for effect.


Bard kiting is less of problem on blue for a couple reasons. First, is that there are so many large zones available now with kunark and velious out that they have less of an impact. That's not going to be the case on green. Second,anyone who wanted to play a bard and swarm kites is already close to level 60 or at level 60, so you aren't going to see them swarming.

Bard kiting was so problematical on blue that they already nerfed it once and even had to cook up special rules regarding it. This problematical nature is going to be magnified several times over on green.

Fair enough, but my original comment on the matter was about the guy that said they would basically be keeping everyone else from being able to level at launch by tying up all the mobs in the newbie zones. I wanted to know how they are going to be able to outpace everyone else to accomplish that.

I'm not saying it's not an issue. What I am saying is that I don't see how bards are going to be able to lock down all the newbie areas so nobody can level up at launch.

[DMN]

Originally Posted by Osprey39 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Fair enough, but my original comment on the matter was about the guy that said they would basically be keeping everyone else from being able to level at launch by tying up all the mobs in the newbie zones. I wanted to know how they are going to be able to outpace everyone else to accomplish that.

I'm not saying it's not an issue. What I am saying is that I don't see how bards are going to be able to lock down all the newbie areas so nobody can level up at launch.

Guild feeds a bard exp to level them up quickly so they can start to effectively swarm kite as fast as possible. Get your second PBAOE in your teens and then dominate the zones after that with swarming. That's what I assume he's referring to.

[Jibartik]

Originally Posted by Osprey39 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Fair enough, but my original comment on the matter was about the guy that said they would basically be keeping everyone else from being able to level at launch by tying up all the mobs in the newbie zones. I wanted to know how they are going to be able to outpace everyone else to accomplish that.

I'm not saying it's not an issue. What I am saying is that I don't see how bards are going to be able to lock down all the newbie areas so nobody can level up at launch.

this guy was level four... its going to be the most insane shit show just wait.

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[Keza]

On one hand we have people saying there needs to be multiple servers because there isn't enough mobs.

On another we have people complaining about how bards will take all the mobs.

How can the bards take the mobs if there is so many people that there are no mobs to take? While I don't agree that we need multiple servers, their logic is sound in that there won't be any mobs to spare and therefor there will be nothing for bards to monopolize. You're going to be running around desperate to find a single mob to kill just like the launch of every MMO ever. Don't let the delusional people fool you into thinking otherwise and don't let them persuade you into thinking that shouldn't be the case. If people were as knowledgeable in classic EQ about class imbalances, ZEM etc the game would have been garbage as, let's be honest, it's horribly imbalanced and has a lot of design flaws.

As for the OP's comment.. I'm not quite as interested in the only zones that are popularized on blue being popularized on green (without twinks) as I am zones that no one ever goes to, but both are pretty excitig for someone wanting to relive classic EQ.

[DMN]

Originally Posted by Keza [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

On one hand we have people saying there needs to be multiple servers because there isn't enough mobs.

On another we have people complaining about how bards will take all the mobs.

How can the bards take the mobs if there is so many people that there are no mobs to take?

Pretty easy because a bard "takes" a mob in a couple seconds, everyone else takes 20-50 times longer to take a mob. Bard has tracking, bard has the fastest movment speed in the game. The bard can keep taking and rounding shit up. While this is occurring the mobs the bard has taken are not respawning. Unlike when a non bard takes a mob, which will immediately start a timer for a respawn. This has an incredible stiffing effect for anyone trying to exp in that zone.

[Fammaden]

Bards aren't going to be monopolizing every zone for every level range simultaneously. Even in this worst case scenario being presented of guilds powerleveling each other they would be done with gfay and qhills and shit in fairly short order, and the actual dungeons will be a different beast than some outdoor field.

Plus this all still assumes that green is going to be orders of magnitude more popular than blue for more than the first few weeks which I'm not at all convinced will be the case.

[Tethler]

Originally Posted by Fammaden [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Bards aren't going to be monopolizing every zone for every level range simultaneously. Even in this worst case scenario being presented of guilds powerleveling each other they would be done with gfay and qhills and shit in fairly short order, and the actual dungeons will be a different beast than some outdoor field.

Plus this all still assumes that green is going to be orders of magnitude more popular than blue for more than the first few weeks which I'm not at all convinced will be the case.

Even if the population of green is half that of blue, every person on green will be in the same few low level zones, rather than spread across the world. Even a few people doing this could cause significant disruption.