Cheating everywhere, GMs???

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I will try to make a very simple math example to show why online games are not a great way to judge reaction times.

In case you don't know, ping measures the round trip time it takes for a player to send data to the server, and receive it back. So if a player has a ping of 20ms, that means it took something like 10ms to send the data out, and 10ms to get the data back. It doesn't have to be a 50/50 split like that, but I will use it for simplicity.

Here are the conditions for the hypothetical example:

1. Racing Player A has 20ms ping.

2. Racing Player B has 200ms ping.

3. Observing Player A has 20ms ping.

4. All three players happen to recieve the "START RACE" message at the same time (in this case the target /random number).

5. Lets assume OP is correct, and normal humans have a 250ms reaction time.

==================================================

Racing Player A would send his "STARTED MOVING" command to the server at the 260ms second mark (250ms reaction time + 10ms to get his command to the server).

Racing Player B would send his "STARTED MOVING" command to the server at the 350ms second mark (250ms reaction time + 100ms to get his command to the server).

Observing Player A would see Racing Player A start moving after 270ms of seeing the "START RACE" message (250ms reaction time + 10ms for the command to get to the server + 10ms for the command to get to Observing Player A).

Observing Player A would see Racing Player B start moving after 360ms of seeing the "START RACE" message (250ms reaction time + 100ms for the command to get to the server + 10ms for the command to get to Observing Player A).

As you can see, it would APPEAR that Racing Player A had a 90ms head start for whatever reason. But that is only due to ping, not to actual reaction time. That is why you can't compare this to an Olympic race, because there is no intermediary between the "START RACE" signal and the players in real life.

[-TK-]

Originally Posted by Goldknyght [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Is there a TLDR and TLDW recap? Cheaters gonna cheat n Haters gonna hate. nothing has changed in norrath.

The takeaway from this thread seems to be just to go ahead and run a script to get off the line as it appears the staff can't detect it even if someone spends months of their lives trying to prove you scripted, then spend hours on a practice server learning to run a hot line so your scripting isn't wasted. If that's not enough, move closer to the server and upgrade your rig. I think that about covers it.

[Profyx]

Originally Posted by Croco [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ok now take into account that the best racer on the server has dogshit ping from being located on the west coast and also that he's first off the line every, single, race. Without fail. No matter the time of day, no matter the point in the window that KT spawns. 100% consistency of being first off the line. He never gets tired and is a little slow to react, he never has an off day, never isn't completely focused and ready to bust off the race line first. That's a whole lot of smoke for there to be no fire.

Jeez, Im like Superman! I wish this was true

[Chortles Snortles]

or u bad

[branamil]

imagine doing statistical regression analysis to get your make believe goblin 40 more hitpoints on his finger slot.

You should thank the "cheater" for making you realize how much of your life you're wasting

[titanshub]

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

wut.

Isn't that all OP provided here? Some false correlations and hand waving?

The only thing supporting his point of view that what he's saying is true is that he wants it to be true.

I don't have to prove anything false. His argument is fucking bullshit, and the fact that GMs haven't made any changes based on the video indicates to me that they agree.



It can't be that he's better than them, nah. NAH.

OP made a reasonable argument to show something many have suspected for a long time. If he has made an error then the burden is on the people who disagree with the assertion to refute it. It's how science works. Now this isn't real science as its just a youtube video and not a very rigorous presentation of evidence but its enough to convince a LOT of people who play here. Do you care if people think Vanquish race winners are cheating or not? I guess I don't really care but it will stand as evidence until refuted. If you do care I think that refuting it should be relatively simple with a larger randomized dataset of races.

[Croco]

Originally Posted by Profyx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Jeez, Im like Superman! I wish this was true

I've watched over 2 dozen videos of you racing in kael and tov and you're off the line first in every single one of them. Without fail. Even at 1-5am pacific time. Instant reaction. The only races I've seen you lose are where you screw up somewhere further in the race after the start. The point in time after the script helps you get the inhuman jump.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by titanshub [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

OP made a reasonable argument to show something many have suspected for a long time. If he has made an error then the burden is on the people who disagree with the assertion to refute it. It's how science works. Now this isn't real science as its just a youtube video and not a very rigorous presentation of evidence but its enough to convince a LOT of people who play here. Do you care if people think Vanquish race winners are cheating or not? I guess I don't really care but it will stand as evidence until refuted. If you do care I think that refuting it should be relatively simple with a larger randomized dataset of races.

Please look at this example and tell me how OP addresses it (he doesn't).

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I will try to make a very simple math example to show why online games are not a great way to judge reaction times.

In case you don't know, ping measures the round trip time it takes for a player to send data to the server, and receive it back. So if a player has a ping of 20ms, that means it took something like 10ms to send the data out, and 10ms to get the data back. It doesn't have to be a 50/50 split like that, but I will use it for simplicity.

Here are the conditions for the hypothetical example:

1. Racing Player A has 20ms ping.

2. Racing Player B has 200ms ping.

3. Observing Player A has 20ms ping.

4. All three players happen to recieve the "START RACE" message at the same time (in this case the target /random number).

5. Lets assume OP is correct, and normal humans have a 250ms reaction time.

==================================================

Racing Player A would send his "STARTED MOVING" command to the server at the 260ms second mark (250ms reaction time + 10ms to get his command to the server).

Racing Player B would send his "STARTED MOVING" command to the server at the 350ms second mark (250ms reaction time + 100ms to get his command to the server).

Observing Player A would see Racing Player A start moving after 270ms of seeing the "START RACE" message (250ms reaction time + 10ms for the command to get to the server + 10ms for the command to get to Observing Player A).

Observing Player A would see Racing Player B start moving after 360ms of seeing the "START RACE" message (250ms reaction time + 100ms for the command to get to the server + 10ms for the command to get to Observing Player A).

As you can see, it would APPEAR that Racing Player A had a 90ms head start for whatever reason. But that is only due to ping, not to actual reaction time. That is why you can't compare this to an Olympic race, because there is no intermediary between the "START RACE" signal and the players in real life.

[ClephNote]

Should I git gud or document my failure for 2 months and accuse the winner of cheating and staff of incompetence/lack of caring?

Hmmmm….

[karadin]

Originally Posted by Croco [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I've watched over 2 dozen videos of you racing in kael and tov and you're off the line first in every single one of them. Without fail. Even at 1-5am pacific time. Instant reaction. The only races I've seen you lose are where you screw up somewhere further in the race after the start. The point in time after the script helps you get the inhuman jump.

You’re going to make Stunningly’s head big with compliments like that. I’ve seen plenty where he wasn’t the first off the line. People also race against him on our test server and have beaten him off the line plenty of times.

If he cheats, OPs video doesn’t come close to making the case. His arguments are flawed from the outset when he says that it is humanly impossible to react quicker than 150ms. You don’t even need to be superhuman to do that. Just look at posts in #blue-general on the day everyone was posting their results. Or just look at the research on human reaction times that completely obliterated his claim.