Warriors. Who tanks with a 2h?

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by Dogz_SS [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I haven't done any kind of testing though, it's just my experience

And your experience is what I was mostly asking for. I greatly appreciate your input brother. I can napkin math all the live long day but we all know that actual gameplay is where the kicker is. You gave me what I was precisely asking for: someone who has FR and other tools and what your experiences were.

Importantly I have to admit I was wrong in my statements about combined dual wield ratios being inferior to 42/43. On this front I was incorrect. I tried to run the numbers of raw white damage threat and it wasn’t working out the way I was expected. Bear in mind there are NO firm/verified equations for this so the numbers could still be fuzzy. Frostreaver did not continue to pull ahead as expected. In some cases it slid backwards.

Combined aggro with level 60 and 100% haste. These projected numbers assume you are 60 and with 255 dex and factors in double attack, triple attack, duel wield impacts on relative swing rates. Using 70% for both double attack and dual wield plus the 12% triple attack rate I have found repeatedly posted. These numbers can never be perfect but it is what the community has held true for a long time.

Infestation + red epic = 6594/6694 hate/minute (dot variance)
Feverblade + red epic = 7275/7495 hate/minute. (dot variance)
Willsapper + red epic = 7093 hate/minute
Trident + red epic = 7109/7309 hate/min (dot variance
Frostreaver = 7174 hate/minute

For comparison infestation + frostbringer is considered the standard “great” aggro combo for non raiders and those just starting to raid.

Infestation + FB = 6345/6445 hate/min (dot variance)

For kicks ran the math and 2h epic = 6976 hate/min. Very respectable.

Takeaways:
-All around feverblade plus red epic are on top and maintains value of 3 procs per minute. Average over time it is between 1.4-4.3% better than Frostreaver.
-Trident/epic has is between 1.2 percent worse to 2% better than Frostreaver. more or less Nearly equivalent on napkin-math but undoubtedly has the 3 proc benefit and is much better on stats and reliability.
-Willsapper and red epic come in 1.2% behind Frostreaver but I’d argue still wins by a land slide because it procs a slow, stat superiority, and less variance having 3 procs vs 2. (Similar to above)
-infestation and red epic come in handily behind Frostreaver. 3 procs are nice but the difference is starting to get big and ripostes at 18 delay hurt.

Most important takeaway: there is only a 14% threat difference between the best group aggro setup and feverblade/red epic combo. I am not seeing anything that is “30% too little to get the job done”. The rest of these “raid weapon” combinations have variance within 5.4% of each other. Infestation and red epic being 10.7% behind the best.


Ps: I am a nerd and thoroughly enjoy hacking through the numbers on a day off. No argumentativeness here is intended. The more we all know the better we all are.

I will say though, for those thinking of swapping to sword and shield for a heavy hitter after defensive … if you have a Frostreaver or 2h epic maybe consider that using that instead. Fewer stats/ac but how much more will you cut down on ripostes while at the same time not crippling your aggro. Seems the be a “best of both worlds” scenario.

[Keebz]

It would have been cool if there was a 2h with a good enough ratio (think Vulaxe) and an aggro proc to truly compete with 1h setups. 2h are so much more satisfying.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by Toxigen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you have your warrior epic you best be using it and not Dain's mediocre 2 hander.

Just sayin.

2 hand epic: 6976 threat/minute
Frostreaver: 7174 threat per minute

Using epic you gain 5 str, 10 dex, 10 stamina, 50hp, 2 fire, 4 disease, 3 cold, 1 magic, and 5 poison resist.

Using Frostreaver you gain 2.8% more threat and quite a lot more dps output (estimated 11-12% more)

[Toxigen]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

2 hand epic: 6976 threat/minute
Frostreaver: 7174 threat per minute

Using epic you gain 5 str, 10 dex, 10 stamina, 50hp, 2 fire, 4 disease, 3 cold, 1 magic, and 5 poison resist.

Using Frostreaver you gain 2.8% more threat and quite a lot more dps output (estimated 11-12% more)

nah meant red blade + literally anything you can get a hold of

(if you got scales you can certainly get a willsapper)

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by Toxigen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

nah meant red blade + literally anything you can get a hold of

(if you got scales you can certainly get a willsapper)

Ah yep. We are in agreement then. If I had them I would gladly use red blade paired with a wide range of weapons to include WS, trident, shissar, feverblade. Having that extra proc makes dry runs so much less likely. When/if I get back into raiding and have the dkp to afford the upgrades, it has always been my plan.

The exercise in math was enlightening and did show, however, that FR is more than enough to just “get the job done”. It is right up there in the middle of the best possible aggro setups averaged over time. And it does hold a defensive advantage in fewer ripostes received if tanking a heavy hitter.

Plus … I’m a dwarf and big ass axes just fit the fashionquest profile so damn well.

It would have been cool if there was a 2h with a good enough ratio (think Vulaxe) and an aggro proc to truly compete with 1h setups. 2h are so much more satisfying

Oh hell yeah. If https://wiki.project1999.com/Gaudral...ord_of_the_Sky had Frostreaver’s proc …

-would clock in at 7810 threat per minute

[Troxx]

Or they could just give Blade of Carnage the post velious update to be 15/20 and 700 threat enraging blow proc. That would simplify things considerably.

[Allishia]

Feverblade is way way better threat then red blade or trident, just fyi! Like, its not even comparable lol, whether it procs or not, u will get threat. SOD is the best but ya I cant get that soo...

I didn't believe it at first either, but once I got one, it is really all I use 90% of the time. Ty Detoxx / Venice for your testing of agro weps and finally convincing me to buy the feverblade / lady n horn =P

Obviously diff weps for specific encounters.


Feverblade primary / katana offhand or sometimes i swap offhand for redblade. If I need more threat on easy encounter I use the 10/15 horn offhand (has no hp is the downside, but crazy good agro).

Trident is really only good for like krezien, koi, vymm. Ill use trident primary with katana offhand for stat boost.

Vulak is usually katana primary + shield offhand since you want low agro to not rip from the kiters at the start, later on I swap to dual wield once dps is on it / slowd. Red blade primary / Katana or shield offhand depending how many procs / if agro is good. Because dps has to get off it every so often from aoe, you can use shield for a lot of the fight depending on lucky procs.

Aow I do redblade primary / katana offhand normally for max stats / and good threat. Threat is no issue for 1st tank on aow cause it is bumped and you can dump a full totem in it /nod. If 2nd tank Ill usually have gamparse going and try to stay below other wars in dps so I don't die if it drops, but still enough where once bump picks it up I can get agro easily after.

Silence mobs (growth / lady m).
Krezien Flame + Horn (12/17 and 10/15), you will lock agro np /nod.

[Troxx]

Does feverblade still have what seems like an absurdly large aggro proc Ally? All I can go off of is the forums and patch updates since I don’t own one. I do remember infestation being notably gimped compared to its prior self after the nerf.

[Ripqozko]

Originally Posted by Allishia [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Feverblade is way way better threat then red blade or trident, just fyi! Like, its not even comparable lol, whether it procs or not, u will get threat. SOD is the best but ya I cant get that soo...

I didn't believe it at first either, but once I got one, it is really all I use 90% of the time. Ty Detoxx / Venice for your testing of agro weps and finally convincing me to buy the feverblade / lady n horn =P

Obviously diff weps for specific encounters.


Feverblade primary / katana offhand or sometimes i swap offhand for redblade. If I need more threat on easy encounter I use the 10/15 horn offhand (has no hp is the downside, but crazy good agro).

Trident is really only good for like krezien, koi, vymm. Ill use trident primary with katana offhand for stat boost.

Vulak is usually katana primary + shield offhand since you want low agro to not rip from the kiters at the start, later on I swap to dual wield once dps is on it / slowd. Red blade primary / Katana or shield offhand depending how many procs / if agro is good. Because dps has to get off it every so often from aoe, you can use shield for a lot of the fight depending on lucky procs.

Aow I do redblade primary / katana offhand normally for max stats / and good threat. Threat is no issue for 1st tank on aow cause it is bumped and you can dump a full totem in it /nod. If 2nd tank Ill usually have gamparse going and try to stay below other wars in dps so I don't die if it drops, but still enough where once bump picks it up I can get agro easily after.

Silence mobs (growth / lady m).
Krezien Flame + Horn (12/17 and 10/15), you will lock agro np /nod.

Sorry you don't got warder loot, imagine competitive raiding.

[Toxigen]

lol