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#51
09-26-2019, 09:49 PM
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I didn't take the time to count each faction hit, but that didn't seem like 25 mobs to me. If it was more it isn't by leaps and bounds.
Regardless, take a breath and just accept it for now. View it this way, even if not mechanically classic, you have to admit people didn't know these strats from day 1 and use them en masse. So just view it as an "in the spirit of classic" change if that helps. Hell, pretty sure there was huge server issues first few weeks where people were getting kicked consistently. I remember constant LDs where we would yell, "get to the path! Get to the path! " so we would know where our corpse was when we got back in. | ||
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#52
09-26-2019, 10:12 PM
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Rogean and nilbog are top shelf, I can't think of anyone with more knowledge of client server things then Rogean aside from maybe that guy called Image the Gimp and for all I know maybe that was Rogean. So don't think i'm talking shit about these 2 people because i'm not. You know my stance on AoE. I would simply make the game mechanics classic. No mob limits, and no PB AoE damage limits. First there isn't enough mobs for anyone including bards to really monopolize zones like there is during the Kunark era. You ain't going to see low level AoE groups in Blackburrow or Guk or wherever because these zones are pretty hard to make that type of pull. You would have to get all the way in then run all the way out get healed and it just doesn't work. Bards would have many mobs to kite up till 25 then that's it after that they won't be getting any 25+ mob pulls until Kunark. Make the game how it was originally and then if things become a huge problem the code is ready to go and implement the 25 mob limit again. But don't screw with AoE targets the only reason they didn't work right was because it was 1999 and nothing worked right. Leave them go and work as they were intended to work don't try to simulate a bad connection by placing limits on things. | |||
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#53
09-27-2019, 12:48 AM
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I can't help but think there is a failure to communicate here.
You keep saying "classic", and in P99 vernacular "classic" is everything between and inclusive of vanilla and velious. It's a shitload of changes and patches to fundamental aspects of the game, which does indeed include increasing the AoE target amounts. Also, sadly, some of changes never made it into the patch notes. | ||
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#54
09-27-2019, 01:23 AM
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And you say it includes increasing the target AoE amounts but that isn't exactly what the patch notes say. It only says certain AoE spells were fixed to effect more mobs. That could mean different things. It could mean that certain spells were bugged thanks to server/client, and connectivity issues which made them not work as they were intended to work and as time went on the issue got fixed to make sure it worked correctly. Possibly it was only targeted AoE rain spells that was being mentioned. I will tell you these spells hardly ever worked correctly when the game was brand new, sometimes they did but most of the time they didn't and only hit one or two mobs (but that wasn't by design). This is a comment was a reply to the list. "That was a great list showing everything people already knew about (great propagande). The problem is they only announce the 'enhancements' and not the nerfs (unless the nerf is 'for the good of the game'. If you don't believe it .. explain to me why the 'rain enhancement' wasn't listed. Antheus" Do you understand? These AoE spells were intended to hit everything, they did in beta according to those who played beta (I did not) and it wasn't until you had 2 to 3 thousand players on released servers that they started to get wonky and not work correctly. But PB AE spells always hit everything, rain was hit or miss. These spells and songs were created to work a certain way. There is ample proof of how all these spells worked. May, 8th 1999 - EQ Lizer Mage Spell List https://web.archive.org/web/19990508.../magician.html You can't justify any changes to the way these spells were intended to work and be used because you want to simulate terrible 1999 server and connection problems. It is damn near impossible to replicate the problems that caused the spells to not work correctly now and even if you could do such a thing why would anybody support it? No it isn't original, and it wasn't how the spells were supposed to work. It would be like adding in a new system to p99 saying all players will have a random chance at disconnecting every 15 minutes because that's the spirit of the game. To me it's absolutely absurd anyone supports dumb stuff like this. | |||
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Last edited by Vyal; 09-27-2019 at 01:43 AM..
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#55
09-27-2019, 01:58 AM
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The "wave" spells weren't messed up, people just didn't understand how they were supposed to work very well.
there were no enemies that were "immune" to AoE spells that weren't also immune to other spells. So the patch notes wouldn't specific AoE spell targets, but spells in general, if that's what the patch was trying to say. "beta" much like "classic" is just a time frame of many changes to the game. AoE spells initially had no limit on targets. This was nerfed by release not for "balance" reasons, but for concerns of server/client stability. | ||
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#56
09-27-2019, 02:11 AM
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That doesn't change the way the spells were supposed to work. The spells were never supposed to be limited, it's extremely possible and highly probably that these change logs from back then are referring to fixes put in to correct problems from having thousands of people online and they are not saying that prior to the fix AoE spells were intended to work differently. I'm going to leave this thread now take away from it what you will. | |||
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#57
09-27-2019, 11:56 AM
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But I think everyone knows PBAE limits by Kunark/Velious were not a thing, it seems that there were some short lived ones in classic per the evidence in this thread. However while there may not have been PBAE limits I believe there were aggro limits to the number of mobs you could kite around, these weren’t hard aggro limits but you’d run into issues with mobs ghosting, and eventually leashing due to lagging behind. I can only speak to my experience on the Mac server which isn’t exactly Velious era but it was the oldest client we had available in the past decade, and you could pull 30+ mobs and they’d lag a bit but nothing unmanageable. Once you reached the 50-80+ range you were dealing with a huge amount of ghosting mobs, warping and desynching of zones. I think if we are aiming for a more classic experience it’s not PBAE limits to target (except for the classic period as mentioned above which seems to be a timeline fix), but instead a cap on the number of mobs you can keep on aggro before they start ghosting behind you and losing aggro. Cap players on being able to kite or hold aggro on like 40-50~ mobs and that would be a nice balance between classic mechanics and classic experience.
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#59
09-27-2019, 08:55 PM
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There was thousands of players meaning there wasn't many mob to be kited for starters. Up till around level 25 you could find areas to kite many mobs but again you would run into the first problem (too many players not enough mobs) and unless you had some twinked out bard you would get dead anyhow. AoE groups really wouldn't work either because first of all nobody really knew how to do them. They really had no way to learn how to do them either because again there was always too many people in a zone to go screwing around trying out new techniques but even if someone could try to pull off an AoE I know how hard it would be to do. Big AoE and bard kites never were a real thing until after Kunark came out and it wasn't because the game prevented it. Well I guess in a way it did but a really smart person who really wanted to do it could have found a way but again you would run into all the people and train the ever living hell out of everyone just to try and probably fail. I should also note I don't think the original client has a forward auto strafe like when you hit W + D + RMB at the same time to lock it in. It had to all be done by hand pretty much. This is prior to the patch that people are saying bards could only hit 4 mobs. >>>>>>>>>>>>>9/11/99<<<<<<<<<<<<< Extreme Kiting: Killing 6 Reds at once. https://groups.google.com/forum/#!se...Q/DrsSx8vPsE8J Here is something I did last night. Will I do it again? ehhh probably not. I just reached level 18 with my Bard. I got the dischord song. What it does for those of you who dont know is about 30 pts of damage of 10 seconds or something like that to everything around the bard. Has to be played with an instrument. I had kited some things before but found it rather boring and didnt care buch for it. I had used bellow before. 10 pts to one target. Even with the dischord song it took about 10-15 mins to kite something to death. Not really worth it even if it was a red con. So I figured if it takes 10-15 mins to kite something why not kite multiple things at once? So I ran up and down the beach of oasis bellowing anything that was blue or higher. By the time I was done I had about 4 Deepwater crocs on me, and 2 deepwater caimens. The 4 DWC were reds and the 2 caimens were yellows. So I had 6 mobs following me around the zone. I found a relativeley safe place and began kiting with the dischord song. Now in order for this song to hit, you bards all know, you have to be REALLY close to your opponent. IN this case 6 of them. Now DWCrocs hit HARD. LIke for 40 pts vs my bard. If you even let them nip at your heels ONCE you are prety much done for. So i started kiting. A few mins in I got caught by the entire group of them. I took about 275 pts of damage in the span of about 1 second. LUCKILY I wasnt stunned and could keep running. If I had been stunned I would have died for sure. A GM was watching me the entire time as well. He never said anything. Some other characters had seen what I was doing and were watching. I had them all to more than half damage so wasnt worried about kill stealing by that time. Some people were commenting that I was being greedy. When it was all said and done I had taken down 6 crocs, 4 of which conned red and 2 that had conned yellow. I think I gained more than a bubble of xp in about 15 mins. Now I dont know if I would pull another stunt like this again. I was LUCKY not to have died, but this is just an example of what kiting can do in an extreme case. If you were VERY good you could have had 10-12 mobs on you at once ALL RED, and killed them all, IF you didnt mess up. Believe me, this form of kiting with the dischord song, is soooo dangerous. I re-iterate you have to be RIGHT near the mob for it to take effect. One virtual foot to far and nada, one too close and 6 mobs rip you to bits. I assume the upcoming nerf will take care of this tactic as well. Not that I would use it anymore. Frankly kiting is boring but I must say when you have 6 on you its a little more exciting knowing you could be dead at any time if you slip up. And I do many times. As to the risk vs xp reward, I think I was in an EXTREME amount of risk doing this. Hell I tried it once and almost died. BUT I dont think its reasonable to be able to take down 6 reds at once no matter what the risk. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>>>>>>September 13th, 9:00am<<<<<<<<<<<<< New Patch Message https://groups.google.com/forum/#!se...A/wYXzrc1eohEJ - A bug in some of the AoE code has been fixed - AoE spells will now effect more monsters. >>>>>>>>>>>>>9/14/99<<<<<<<<<<<<< Wow! The bitching is almost universal now. https://groups.google.com/forum/#!se...I/hyiS2lA-DBcJ Just about the only class not affected are the Bards --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The game is very old and people have learned many things. You can't MiB flashy thing people so that they get amnesia but it would be cool if you could. There's so much I want to forget just so I can relive it totally fresh like tv anime =/ | |||
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Last edited by Vyal; 09-27-2019 at 09:03 PM..
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#60
09-27-2019, 11:28 PM
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This thread is like, some serious shit man.
*80's cop movie music intensifies Heh you know what I want to know, why does that guy have this website in his sig https://web.archive.org/web/19991111.../www.deja.com/ what a weird website to have in a fantasy game sig. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] | ||
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Last edited by Jibartik; 09-27-2019 at 11:38 PM..
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