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  #101  
Old 02-03-2021, 08:18 PM
Ravager Ravager is offline
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Log parsers exist. Easy enough to script the highest rolls.

Who really needs anything here? The Planes were beat with Classic Dungeon Gear. Kunark was beat with Classic Planes Gear. Velious was beat with Kunark Gear. Nobody needs best in slot on this server for anything. It's all just dressing up their dolls. There is no good argument that one person needs something more than any other.

Yes, everyone in attendance gets a random. That's the only fair thing for waking someone up in the middle of the night to do this shit. Add rules and you're just trying to skew things unfairly in your own favor. If you think there are loafers in the guild just showing up to roll and not do anything, well there's always /gkick. You'll find out who's actually there for the good of the guild and their friends in a hurry.

Big big guilds only exist to give a few at the top the numbers they need to coast for their loot and telling a bunch of people that they actually have a chance at the things they want if they just earn the DKP is a lie and a scam. If everyone had a fair roll on everything that dropped you wouldn't see the burnout and turnover you do in the zergs because that chance would always be there to get that thing they really wanted and they wouldn't feel like they're just spinning their wheels.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravager [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
/random is the only fair answer and is as fair as anything else in life. People don't want fair though and will continue to argue why a system that lets them put their thumb on the scale is best.
  #102  
Old 02-03-2021, 09:06 PM
magnetaress magnetaress is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustoo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
What rules apply to random? Do everyone in attendance do the /random?

I think the argument that your high raid attendance means you get high amount of /randoms is pretty strong, but I guess I can imagine scenarios where it breaks down, just like all the DKP guys can see how it breaks down too.

Can someone tell me a complete system that works and isn't broken as heck? On random roll I can see a lot of messes happening if the entire attendant list /randoms for every single item that is dropped.

Many hours would be spent when those winners take time to negotiate the loot rights with other guildies ETC.

Depriving a guildie of needed fat loots in order to go sell it on the messageboard seems obviously wrong because a guild is supposed to be a team not some??? weird ass thing where people band together in a greed before need situation.

But I don't know how you handle distribution in a big big guild.
Usually ppl don't go for stuff they don't need.

I remember being a dkp scrooge tho and spending like 3 weeks of DKP on a shield for my cleric in GoD that wasn't BiS for the healer role, but really nice anyway. I got kinda the cold shoulder for it.

Don't think I ever upgraded that shield until well into TSS. I loved it. Cuz it was cool and made me feel safer.
  #103  
Old 02-03-2021, 09:43 PM
Dennar Dennar is offline
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Why has no one discussed the obvious solution #Pick3 loot system. You get more loot going to people who want/need it and get just a hint of /random still.
  #104  
Old 02-03-2021, 09:49 PM
Vianna Vianna is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravager [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Sorry. Random is as fair as the universe gets. 1 in 5 people live on less than a dollar a day and it's not because they're not working hard for what they get.

If you expect people to wake up at 3am to log on a game and help you kill a dragon so you can loot it without giving them a fair shake, you are just a selfish prick. If you want to work for it and attend more raids for more rolls, the laws of averages will give you your fair share.

If you're worried that some wizard will win some warrior loot or won't attend a raid if caster gear isn't dropping, guess what, you can wheel and deal and trade rolls and favors to sort that shit out. If someone gets hot dice and wins a bunch of shit and they just start gearing up alts, well there's an answer for that too, be more selective about who you let in your guild.

Just don't tell me DKP is fair when only a few get a chance at the best loot despite being carried by a zerg of others wasting their time gearing your characters.

Pretty simple. I can't help you if you don't understand it.
Terrible argument. /random has never been and will never be a fair loot system in a raiding enviroment with 25+ people.
  #105  
Old 02-04-2021, 06:14 PM
Ravager Ravager is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vianna [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Terrible argument. /random has never been and will never be a fair loot system in a raiding enviroment with 25+ people.
That is a comprehensive and well laid out counter argument. Consider my mind changed. DKP is the best and only answer.
  #106  
Old 02-04-2021, 10:58 PM
Kohedron Kohedron is offline
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Because it rewards the ugliest of all the snaggletooths out there. Pretty simple.
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