Bard or Ranger?

[deezy]

Originally Posted by jolanar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How do rangers do more damage than monks if their weapons are worse? Just curious.

Probably the +atk bonus if I had to made an educated guess. Me and my ranger buddies have consistently scored higher on our damage parses than monks have. My rough estimate would be about 3/4 of the time rangers were higher damage than monks.

[Legidias]

(Notice theres no mention of equal gear or buffs)

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by jolanar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How do rangers do more damage than monks if their weapons are worse? Just curious.

Oh it’s more than just ratios. They have lower offense skill cap, weapon skill caps, dual wield skill cap, double attack skill cap, and an inferior (kick vs flying kick) secondary attack skill that also has lower skill cap.

I’m also very interested in hearing the rationale.

-Inferior weapon ratios
-lower weapon skill caps and offense
-inferior double attack and dual wield
-inferior bonus attack
= profit?

If you only factor in Trueshot (2 minutes per 72 minutes), that’s a brief window with exceptional damage potential followed by 70 minutes of all the challenges listed above. Many of the truly impressive parses I’ve seen involved BFG though some were with other high end traditional bows.

Deezy, do you give your monks CoP. If you did, did they lose it in the process of dying or being debuffed while they were out bringing the mob to you? Were they having the opportunity to have 100% uptime fighting or did they spend part of the fight flopped from the pull? Were you sitting in a bard dps group and/or consistently prebuffed with avatar while the monk team is generally best utilized in a puller group arrangement? Under the right circumstances it’s easy to see how a NToV geared ranger could functionally beat a monk with the same ratios (don’t have their BiS monk specific weapons), but most of those circumstances involve simply benefiting from outside buffs/support and/or simply more available uptime opportunity easily lost because monks were doing that one critical duty that enables the whole raid.

Innate ranger attack exists mostly to partially offset the lower weapon/offense/dualwield/double attack skill caps.

Originally Posted by Legidias [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

(Notice theres no mention of equal gear or buffs)

Bingo.

[deezy]

Originally Posted by Legidias [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

(Notice theres no mention of equal gear or buffs)

in a raid setting

[Ripqozko]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Oh it’s more than just ratios. They have lower offense skill cap, weapon skill caps, dual wield skill cap, double attack skill cap, and an inferior (kick vs flying kick) secondary attack skill that also has lower skill cap.

I’m also very interested in hearing the rationale.

-Inferior weapon ratios
-lower weapon skill caps and offense
-inferior double attack and dual wield
-inferior bonus attack
= profit?

If you only factor in Trueshot (2 minutes per 72 minutes), that’s a brief window with exceptional damage potential followed by 70 minutes of all the challenges listed above. Many of the truly impressive parses I’ve seen involved BFG though some were with other high end traditional bows.

Deezy, do you give your monks CoP. If you did, did they lose it in the process of dying or being debuffed while they were out bringing the mob to you? Were they having the opportunity to have 100% uptime fighting or did they spend part of the fight flopped from the pull? Were you sitting in a bard dps group and/or consistently prebuffed with avatar while the monk team is generally best utilized in a puller group arrangement? Under the right circumstances it’s easy to see how a NToV geared ranger could functionally beat a monk with the same ratios (don’t have their BiS monk specific weapons), but most of those circumstances involve simply benefiting from outside buffs/support and/or simply more available uptime opportunity easily lost because monks were doing that one critical duty that enables the whole raid.

Innate ranger attack exists mostly to partially offset the lower weapon/offense/dualwield/double attack skill caps.



Bingo.

Really none of this matters, most won't see tov gear . A scrub monk will outdps a scrub ranger. Ranger is quite good with tov gear however . With bfg and trueshot I parae like a bad rogue .with tov gear and melee I beat bad monks (most monks don't have tov weapons). But i wouldn't roll a ranger with ass gear.

[Legidias]

A lot of high end geared monks are also utilized for pulling etc, so if they manage to get back in time for fight, they start like 30-60s after a fight has already started (such as zoning out of ToV and zoning back in for coth, etc.)

So when you see in a NToV fight for example rangers beating out the B team monks, well yes. Youre comparing your geared rangers to the next-to best monks that arent in pull team.

[deezy]

tunare doesn't require any pulling, but there are probably better examples of mobs that are easier to get a full parse on.

[deezy]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Deezy, do you give your monks CoP. If you did, did they lose it in the process of dying or being debuffed while they were out bringing the mob to you? Were they having the opportunity to have 100% uptime fighting or did they spend part of the fight flopped from the pull? Were you sitting in a bard dps group and/or consistently prebuffed with avatar while the monk team is generally best utilized in a puller group arrangement? Under the right circumstances it’s easy to see how a NToV geared ranger could functionally beat a monk with the same ratios (don’t have their BiS monk specific weapons), but most of those circumstances involve simply benefiting from outside buffs/support and/or simply more available uptime opportunity easily lost because monks were doing that one critical duty that enables the whole raid.

During a raid I always give whatever buff is asked for. After considering the downtime a monk has, in the past I've asked some of them not to pull and stay on a mob 100% of the time. Consistently monks were either on par or came short.

Yes, I always try to keep an avatar buff on myself just like most of the DPS at the raid. While I love being grouped with a bard, I don't often get to since they're usually reserved for cleric and rogue groups. A monk with BIS weapons would probably more consistently do more damage than my ranger, but that would be an unfair comparison when you consider my ranger does not have BIS weapons. I think it might be reasonable to assume a BIS monk would out damage a BIS ranger, but I've never parsed that encounter since I don't know a BIS monk and a BIS ranger.

I understand why you do not believe equally geared and buffed rangers would consistently out damage monks. I didn't believe it myself until I began parsing every single combat scenario. But in my experience and years of parsing these fights I found rangers were doing more damage. Even when taking into account the monk may have been pulling.

It might be prudent to tell you, if I had a IRL superpower, it is making competent spreadsheets.

[feniin]

My 60 ranger parses equal or better to my 60 monk solo and on raids, probably because of the higher attack. Monk is better in every other regard.

[Crede]

Solid advice all, I'm glad I started this post.

I've already created a Ranger(Human of course) and began leveling him.