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  #21  
Old 04-10-2019, 07:53 PM
Snaggles Snaggles is offline
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What weapons are you using? I didnít see them posted; maybe itís just a switch up thatís needed.

Donít forget there is responsibility for DPS to do as much damage as possible while taking as few hits as possible. Itís a rare head-space on p99 but is a damn fact. A rogue missing backstabs would be best to engage at 80-90% and land every one than get smashed to pieces just so he/she can grief the warrior about RNG not blessing with enough procs.

DPS are plentiful and they all have effective aggro dumps. They shouldnít be pandered to by the tank and cleric. At least I never was on live.
  #22  
Old 04-10-2019, 08:10 PM
LazyHydras LazyHydras is offline
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infestation + frostbringer. haven't gotten lucky on that chelaki tail yet.

edit: I'd like to get Dagas from Sky but that war blade is elusive.
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  #23  
Old 04-10-2019, 08:15 PM
DMN DMN is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Your ignorance is showing.

-Str begets higher attack thus more favorable DI spread on your attacks.
-as you climb in levels str raises your max hit
-you carry more

Thatís it.

ďWhite aggroĒ is not affected. A missed swing generates identical threat to a hit. A low hit generates as much threat as a max hit. White aggro is constant and based off of weapon potential damage, damage bonus, and your relative attack speed.

Ways to improve your white damage threat are limited to:
-haste (more is better)
-weapon ratio
-weapon speed (factors in for frequency of damage bonus application)
-leveling up for higher DW and DA frequency
-dinging level 60 for main hand triple attack

Strength has no effect on your threat generation. DPS? Of course.

This is really basic shit that anyone proffering up advice should know.

Really basic shit.

Ya basic?

Where is the proof of strength not increasing hate on a per swing basis? I beleive the hate was from some mathematical average of potential damage which should be higher with higher strength.
  #24  
Old 04-10-2019, 09:06 PM
Troxx Troxx is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DMN [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Where is the proof of strength not increasing hate on a per swing basis? I beleive the hate was from some mathematical average of potential damage which should be higher with higher strength.
So I asked ... "Ya basic?"

Answer: Ya basic.

You are incorrect in your assumption. The worst part is this is basic everquest knowledge. It has been clearly defined both on live and here on p99. It's common knowledge. The amount of hate you generate via melee has nothing to do with your strength, your actual damage dealt or whether or not you even miss/hit. It is simply the potential damage you could have done (dmg/delay), at the rate you actually double attacked your dual wielded (dependent on your level) with a bonus to the damage bonus you could have done (if you did not miss) if you had actually hit them, and the speed with which you attempted to apply said weapon ratio with the clearly defined damage bonus (1h vs 2h).

Basic.

Fundamental.

Everquest.

Mechanics.

We figured this shit out almost 2 decades ago. I am deeply sorry you're almost 20 years late to this party. You can miss 30 attempted strikes in a row and still generate as much threat as 30 consecutive hits for max damage with 255 strength. This isn't 'new information' or even up for discussion. Learn the game before you dispense advice.

Str only impacts:

- Your attack: your chances of hitting high/low on the DB + DI (1-20) spread
- Your max hit, which does increase as you level
- How much weight you can carry

It has 0 effect on how much white melee threat you generate. To increase white melee threat:

- more haste = more frequent application of your weapon ratio (+ dmg bonus)
- weapon ratio ... this should be obvious
- weapon delay (faster = more frequent application of the above)
- your dual wield and double attack skill (level dependent)
- extra bonus if 60 for triple attack awesomesauce

PS: if you absolutely need 'proof' relevant to this discussion the burden is on you to provide the challenging data. This has been parsed 1000x to be true time and time again both on live and here. It's as close to a 'fact' as anything in this wonderful game. If the 99.9999% of the global Everquest (live, p99, or other emulated server) are wrong on this I'd be happy to see the proof and will be the first to lick the boots of the man_child god to prove the collective rest_of_us wrong.

As an aside, my point still stands. I've very much enjoyed having high dexterity at every hunting range. It has served me well, and a lack of investing in Ogre race or dumping my starting stats into stamina has never resulted in death. When and if I die, it's because off overwhelming complicating adds or a disruption (or not paying attention) from my healing crew. Stacking dexterity did work for me, as did prioritizing it. For p99 raids where people plan on dumping 5 hammer clicks on incomming, it is admittedly less of a perk. For the other 99.99% of content I've faced from 1-60 (including 60 and raid tanking), the dexterity has been a boon.
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  #25  
Old 04-10-2019, 09:21 PM
DMN DMN is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
We figured this shit out almost 2 decades ago. I am deeply sorry you're almost 20 years late to this party. You can miss 30 attempted strikes in a row and still generate as much threat as 30 consecutive hits for max damage with 255 strength. This isn't 'new information' or even up for discussion. Learn the game before you dispense advice.
So it will be easy to prove such. So where is it? It's nowhere because it's bullshit. I leveled up guildies low level alts all the time back in the day and this is something I would have certainly noticed.Your white hate wasn't based on a flat number on the weapon; it was based n the potential damage you could have done, which is HIGHER with higher str.
  #26  
Old 04-10-2019, 09:26 PM
Wallicker Wallicker is offline
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Higher str = higher potential damage = higher hate per swing
Damage done per hit doesn’t matter though hit or miss, all potential dmg.
  #27  
Old 04-10-2019, 09:29 PM
Wallicker Wallicker is offline
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Rogue A) ragebringer + scd 150 str
Rogue B) ragebringer + scd 255 str buffed
Both on same side of mob
/auto attack on

You know who will hold the aggro
  #28  
Old 04-10-2019, 10:41 PM
elwing elwing is offline
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Funny, I always thought hate was based on the actual damage (white text)... It's lucky I don't need to care about that much as a sk...
  #29  
Old 04-11-2019, 12:21 AM
Troxx Troxx is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallicker [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Higher str = higher potential damage = higher hate per swing
Damage done per hit doesn’t matter though hit or miss, all potential dmg.
Increased potential damage from str does not increase hate generated. A missed hit does not result in less hate than a max hit.

White damage threat in eq is surprisingly simple.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMN [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
So it will be easy to prove such. So where is it? It's nowhere because it's bullshit. I leveled up guildies low level alts all the time back in the day and this is something I would have certainly noticed.Your white hate wasn't based on a flat number on the weapon; it was based n the potential damage you could have done, which is HIGHER with higher str.
Lol. You really don’t know when to stop. I’d recommend you stop while you’re only moderately behind, but I’m intrigued just how far you’re willing to double/triple/quadruple down when you’re so shamefully wrong.

Keep digging.
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Last edited by Troxx; 04-11-2019 at 12:26 AM..
  #30  
Old 04-11-2019, 12:54 AM
Troxx Troxx is offline
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The test, should you want to repeat it yourself for the Nth time is actually quite easy.

2 60 warriors.
No haste (spells/items).
Fine steel sword (or comparable)
Shield offhand
High hp regen mob that has low dmg output (EW side of Kael comes to mind)
Warrior A no str buff
Warrior B 255 str

Warrior A engages with a 15sec head start. Warrior B engages.

If you’re right and nobody taunts/kicks/disarms, Warrior B will inevitably overtake warrior A only to never lose aggro once. If higher str gives you more threat per swing it will be impossible for warrior A to maintain aggro over the coming minutes. Mobs in that area regen strongly enough it’ll take forever to kill them with FS sword ... and they won’t put out enough damage for you to really need a heal. Test takes minimal effort and can be set up more or less afk for the better part of 15 minutes.

If you’re willing to take the word of someone who’s done this more than a few times here and on live ... the spoiler is that warrior B never overtakes warrior A with an undeniable aggro lock.

If you’re not willing to acknowledge someone who’s done it before ...

Test it yourself. It’s easy.

Edit: typos et al
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Last edited by Troxx; 04-11-2019 at 01:02 AM.. Reason: Typos
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