Effects of CHA on Charm, Mez, and Lull

[Malrubius]

So I've seen a lot of guesswork and posts about Charisma's effect on various (mostly chanter) spells.

I've gathered a lot (most?) of the classic-era posts/tests around this issue, in the hopes that it helps get us a little closer to classic. Apologies in advance for the formatting and various broken links from long ago...


1 - The following post-classic-era thread links to several classic-era discussions (although those classic sub-links no longer work :/). It gives a very good summary (with comments from Verant itself!) of what impact CHA had on charms, mezzes, and lulls...

http://www.brellrants.net/brell/view...3c072341d4df83

Charisma has impact on...

1. Lull Resists (helps determine if you aggro or not)
http://eq.crgaming.com/viewarticle.asp?Article=4882
Quote:

Is the effect resisted?

If the effect is resisted, will the NPC get angry and tell its friends that it's time for a BardSnack(tm), or will it ignore what just happened?

Charisma is the sole determinant in the second check. It doesn't affect (resists).



2. Charm
http://eq.crgaming.com/archives.asp?...60&Action=View
Quote:

I checked with GZ this morning regardng the effect Charisma has in charming. The answer is that its effect is twofold.
Firstly it effects the chance at resisting the initial charm cast. Secondly, and more importantly, it makes it harder for the charmed NPC's save to successfully roll. This basically means it does effect duration.



3. Mez and Blur
http://eq.crgaming.com/archives.asp?...31&Action=View
Quote:

Spoke with GZ this morning regarding Charisma and its effect in relation to resists.

In summary Charisma effects the resists of Charms, Mesmerises and Blur-Type Spells across all classes.



Boston Fanfaire
http://eq.crgaming.com/viewarticle.asp?Article=4451
Quote:

Is Charisma actually taken into account on mesmerizations and charms?

Yes it is. It varies on a number of spells to its actual usefulness but it does have a use. There are different levels of charisma for different classes. The system does take into account that an Enchanter should have a higher charisma than say a Necromancer. It�s unfair to expect masters of the undead to be entirely charismatic.



GZ ON CHARISMA (SOFT) CAP
http://eq.crgaming.com/archives.asp?...75&Action=View
Quote:

GZ confirmed that the soft cap on Charisma is 200

For those unfamiliar with how a soft cap works, once a stat goes over 200 the actual real benefit diminishes. In practical terms this means an increase of a stat from 190 to 200 gives greater benefit than increasing it from 200 to 210.


GZ = Geoffrey Zatkin

2 - http://www.therunes.net/startingguide.htm (Date: 2000-2002)

Cha- This not only gets you the best prices from vendors, it directly effects things such as Charm, Mezz and Lull. I know there is a lot of debate on the effect of Cha for enchanters, however it was finally confirmed by that company.


-=Webarchive link EQCR=-

October 8, 1999

CHARISMA - THE NATURE OF CHARM
I checked with GZ this morning regardng the effect Charisma has in charming. The answer is that its effect is twofold.

Firstly it effects the chance at resisting the initial charm cast. Secondly, and more importantly, it makes it harder for the charmed NPC's save to successfully roll. This basically means it does effect duration.

Also charm does have a maximum duration. The higher level charm spell you use the longer the maximum duration can be. So there is a good reason to use that Allure spell even though its more mana.

Submitted by Baelish, 6:25 PM


November 10, 1999

WHY DO I NEED CHARISMA?
Spoke with GZ this morning regarding Charisma and its effect in relation to resists.

In summary Charisma effects the resists of Charms, Mesmerises and Blur-Type Spells across all classes.

Charisma will not lower resist rates of debuff spells, slow spells, direct damage spells, or DoT's.

Submitted by Baelish, 3:26 AM


NOVEMBER 5, 2002

CHARISMA & LULLS
Source: The Concert Hall.

3 - http://www.therunes.net/rguidehighlevel2.htm

EQ has always been mysterious in the mechanics department. It took a year before it was even acknowledged that Charisma played a role in Mez and Charm resists. Here are some facts that have been discovered (thanks goes out to Nanyea for this info) on the role that Charisma takes:

"Charm does an initial check that consists of a level of caster vs level of mob modified by MR.
Charisma affects this by adding a modifier to the MR approx 10 percent of your total charisma.. so a 300 chr enchanter gets a bonus neg 30 check. After the initial charm land..theres a per tick check based off the server clock.. ie the clock checks every 6 seconds according to the server and say your charm lands on second 4 of that 6... the mob gets a chance to break again in 2 seconds.. that's how you get instant or early breaks that don't last a full tick."

4 - Also, for the following *limited* test, which was unfortunately PoP-ERA :/, the data indicates the following...

With a 305 cha, and then, a 130 cha - and everything else that is relevant unchanged...

1 - Charm lasts ~10% longer with a 305 cha vs. 130 cha.
2 - Charm cast is completely RESISTED, MUCH more often with a lower cha (this surprised me).
3 - The guy's conclusion that #1 above corresponds to "almost no effect" is bogus imo. 10% is huge over time.

http://www.therunes.net/forums/viewt...735fa34e9b4a0f

[Adso]

Excellent post! Thank you very much, I have been considering which way to go with equipment for a while.

- Adso

[Ermonican]

Thanks for this good to know and great post!

[siinge]

charisma has been fixed here non classic

they nerfed chanters already for charming reds for full duration

they changed how necro charm works, its no longer cha based... even though i made an erudite necro and dumped all my points into char like you should on a classic server due to having low cha and erudites having the highest based cha for a necro.. now it makes no difference


FUUUUUUUUUUUUUuuu

the soft cap for everything is 200

example

1 point of int at 50 is 10 mana

1 point of int at 200 capped int = 5 mana

so soft cap everything to 200 then go stam/mana

classic, this is a classic based server but its not hardcoded to be exact alot of things here are different, bards should be able to swarm kite, necro pets have been toend down, mage pets didnt even dw till after 2001.

Some kunark spells are in game, wizard ae snare, but breeze isnt...

developers here are doing a great job but kinda tailor things to see how they wanna see classic

so w/e

[Micer]

If that's true can we get a legit faq showing how stats work now? I don't think it's too much to ask, a lot of people are building characters based on classic info which will only end up gimping them until velious.

[Pikle]

go stam, that's all!

[Malrubius]

Originally Posted by Micer [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If that's true can we get a legit faq showing how stats work now? I don't think it's too much to ask, a lot of people are building characters based on classic info which will only end up gimping them until velious.

Given the uncertainty during character creation, I think a FAQ item is a reasonable request. Not forumulas per se, but something about as specific as my OP above which talks about the classic implementation.

[Malrubius]

Bump in case it helps the devs or if anybody else has data to add.

[girth]

Originally Posted by siinge [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

charisma has been fixed here non classic

they nerfed chanters already for charming reds for full duration

they changed how necro charm works, its no longer cha based... even though i made an erudite necro and dumped all my points into char like you should on a classic server due to having low cha and erudites having the highest based cha for a necro.. now it makes no difference


FUUUUUUUUUUUUUuuu

the soft cap for everything is 200

example

1 point of int at 50 is 10 mana

1 point of int at 200 capped int = 5 mana

so soft cap everything to 200 then go stam/mana

classic, this is a classic based server but its not hardcoded to be exact alot of things here are different, bards should be able to swarm kite, necro pets have been toend down, mage pets didnt even dw till after 2001.

Some kunark spells are in game, wizard ae snare, but breeze isnt...

developers here are doing a great job but kinda tailor things to see how they wanna see classic

so w/e

Which Kunark spells are in the game? Have you made any bug posts about any of those issues or do you just keep a list until you're ready to complain? =D

[siinge]

Originally Posted by girth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Which Kunark spells are in the game? Have you made any bug posts about any of those issues or do you just keep a list until you're ready to complain? =D

have made numerous posts in the bug forum, have made more posts, some were deleted by developers, guides etc. Just gonna let them run there server and stay below the radar. Im on alot of peoples shit list cuz im a Legend.

Ive posted links to proof about classic changes that were ignored because they didnt benefit the greater whole and only a few select players. Truth is truth though.