Is Seal Team going to wake the sleeper?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Here's the thing: you keep claiming I am misrepresenting you, but I don't think I am ... I think we just disagree. Stop me if I'm wrong: you believe that if the game/PnP allows you to do something, it can't be dickish. Correct?

Simple question: can you follow the server rules, and still be "contempable" (sic) person?

No. I have never claimed it is impossible for someone to be "dickish". That idea is the product of your oversimplification of my argument. Of course it is possible to be "dickish" or a "contempable" person while following the Rules/PnP, because:

A. No ruleset is perfect.
B. You can be clever about skirting the rules.
C. Dev's do not have time to settle every possible squabble.

However, the Rules/PnP exist because in most normal situations, if you follow them you will be playing in a way that is not "dickish". This "non-dickish" playstyle has been agreed upon by the Dev's and the community in general. That collective opinion of what is considered "non-dickish" has more weight than an individual's opinion, such as your own. You must also remember that the spectrum of possible human personalities and interactions is practically limitless. It is very easy to misinterpret a human's actions while that person is next to you. It is even easier to misinterpret an action within an MMO, where players are anonymous and we only talk through text. You SHOULD be giving most people the benefit of the doubt when they do something "dickish", or "contemptable", because you lack a LOT of context in most cases. It could very well be that you are interpreting their actions incorrectly.

Now that I have explained my opinion on the Rules/PnP and "dickish" people in a more detailed manner, let me tell you the reasons why Seal Team announcing they will kill Sleeper is NOT "dickish".

1. It follows the Rules/PnP, which is generally correct. This is a good starting point, because it is a collective opinion that has more weight than your individual opinion. However, you are correct that exceptions to the rule exist, so I will give you additional reasons.

2. The Sleeper mechanic is working as intended, as it was created in classic Everquest, which this server is trying to emulate. You may not LIKE this mechanic, but that doesn't mean Seal Team is "dickish" for wanting to use this mechanic. There are a lot of people on P99 that do not like the way Enchanter Charm works right now, for example. But that doesn't make you a "dick" for using Charm on an Enchanter in the way in which people don't like. At that point, you simply have a different opinion on how you think Charm should work, it is not like the Enchanter is purposely flaunting the Charm mechanic to make you angry or something.

3. All available evidence points to players inevitably wanting to wake the Sleeper. This evidence comes from live Everquest, where the Sleeper has been awoken on the majority of servers. Also, Sleeper has been awoken on Blue specifically, which means we have real data within our own emulator. It is not unreasonable to look at a greater than 50% chance of the Sleeper being awoken by another guild to make the decision to try and be the guild to do it. Seal Team is the #1 guild on Green right now, so they are literally the most equipped guild to do this. The biggest guild on the server announcing they will kill the Sleeper is one of the least surprising messages you could send on any Everquest server to be honest.

4. If the Dev's had a strong opinion on the Sleeper remaining asleep, they would do something about it. They would create new rules to prevent people from doing it, create a non-classic mechanic, etc. The Dev's have made it abundantly clear with their actions thus far that they are perfectly fine with a guild waking up the Sleeper. The Dev's opinions on this does matter quite a bit, because they are curating our experience the way they want. If they didn't want player's to experience a world without Warder Loot, they would do something.

[Albanwr]

Green will end, I don't see why you would not wake the sleeper asap. Your characters will be gone from this server before you know it. You will either start again on the new Green, or just keep playing your old stuff on Blue under your new guilds.

I guess the best way would to wait until you have competition, but who really cares? Just wake it and know that it doesn't really matter.

[Ooloo]

Originally Posted by Albanwr [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I guess the best way would to wait until you have competition, but who really cares? Just wake it and know that it doesn't really matter.

Oh they wouldn't be in the position they're in if they didn't think it mattered.

[derpcake2]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No. I have never claimed it is impossible for someone to be "dickish". That idea is the product of your oversimplification of my argument. Of course it is possible to be "dickish" or a "contempable" person while following the Rules/PnP, because:

A. No ruleset is perfect.
B. You can be clever about skirting the rules.
C. Dev's do not have time to settle every possible squabble.

However, the Rules/PnP exist because in most normal situations, if you follow them you will be playing in a way that is not "dickish". This "non-dickish" playstyle has been agreed upon by the Dev's and the community in general. That collective opinion of what is considered "non-dickish" has more weight than an individual's opinion, such as your own. You must also remember that the spectrum of possible human personalities and interactions is practically limitless. It is very easy to misinterpret a human's actions while that person is next to you. It is even easier to misinterpret an action within an MMO, where players are anonymous and we only talk through text. You SHOULD be giving most people the benefit of the doubt when they do something "dickish", or "contemptable", because you lack a LOT of context in most cases. It could very well be that you are interpreting their actions incorrectly.

Now that I have explained my opinion on the Rules/PnP and "dickish" people in a more detailed manner, let me tell you the reasons why Seal Team announcing they will kill Sleeper is NOT "dickish".

1. It follows the Rules/PnP, which is generally correct. This is a good starting point, because it is a collective opinion that has more weight than your individual opinion. However, you are correct that exceptions to the rule exist, so I will give you additional reasons.

2. The Sleeper mechanic is working as intended, as it was created in classic Everquest, which this server is trying to emulate. You may not LIKE this mechanic, but that doesn't mean Seal Team is "dickish" for wanting to use this mechanic. There are a lot of people on P99 that do not like the way Enchanter Charm works right now, for example. But that doesn't make you a "dick" for using Charm on an Enchanter in the way in which people don't like. At that point, you simply have a different opinion on how you think Charm should work, it is not like the Enchanter is purposely flaunting the Charm mechanic to make you angry or something.

3. All available evidence points to players inevitably wanting to wake the Sleeper. This evidence comes from live Everquest, where the Sleeper has been awoken on the majority of servers. Also, Sleeper has been awoken on Blue specifically, which means we have real data within our own emulator. It is not unreasonable to look at a greater than 50% chance of the Sleeper being awoken by another guild to make the decision to try and be the guild to do it. Seal Team is the #1 guild on Green right now, so they are literally the most equipped guild to do this. The biggest guild on the server announcing they will kill the Sleeper is one of the least surprising messages you could send on any Everquest server to be honest.

4. If the Dev's had a strong opinion on the Sleeper remaining asleep, they would do something about it. They would create new rules to prevent people from doing it, create a non-classic mechanic, etc. The Dev's have made it abundantly clear with their actions thus far that they are perfectly fine with a guild waking up the Sleeper. The Dev's opinions on this does matter quite a bit, because they are curating our experience the way they want. If they didn't want player's to experience a world without Warder Loot, they would do something.

Stop getting trolled.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

1. It follows the Rules/PnP, which is generally correct. This is a good starting point, because it is a collective opinion that has more weight than your individual opinion. However, you are correct that exceptions to the rule exist, so I will give you additional reasons.

Great, let's see your "additional" reasons ...

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

2. The Sleeper mechanic is working as intended, as it was created in classic Everquest, which this server is trying to emulate.

This isn't a new point: it's literally you just repeating the same flawed argument ("if the game let's me do it, I can't be a dick")

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

3. All available evidence points to players inevitably wanting to wake the Sleeper.

What are you smoking? Were you here when Rampage woke the Sleeper? Everyone on the server hated them for it. (Which is the logical and natural consequence of being a dick and denying everyone else on the server experiences/items.)

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

4. If the Dev's had a strong opinion on the Sleeper remaining asleep, they would do something about it.

Again, just a repeat your flawed logic ("if the devs allow it, it can't be dickish behavior"). But (once again), you can be following the rules and playing the game without cheating ... and still be a dick!

You added nothing whatsoever to your argument (except acknowledging that you have no idea how unpopular the first Sleeper wakening was) with that massive wall of text.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Albanwr [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Green will end, I don't see why you would not wake the sleeper asap. Your characters will be gone from this server before you know it. You will either start again on the new Green, or just keep playing your old stuff on Blue under your new guilds.

A) We still haven't had official confirmation of a merger from the staff (they were going to, but then said essentially "we'll wait and see")

B) There is a possibility that if the Sleeper is asleep on Green when it merges, the staff will restore it to "sleeping status" on Blue.

Obviously though I agree that if the staff says A) "were merging", and B) "the sleeper ain't coming" and C) we are close enough to the server's end that no one else is going to get keyed and see ST ...

... then, at that point, it wouldn't be a dick move to kill the sleeper.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This isn't a new point: it's literally you just repeating the same flawed argument ("if the game let's me do it, I can't be a dick")

If that is your takeaway from what I said, there is the problem. It is not my opinion that is flawed, it is your reading comprehension ability that is flawed. I never said "If the game let's me do it, I can't be a dick".

I wrote the wall of text to hopefully explain missing context. Instead, you just keep tunnel visioning and misquoting.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Ripqozko [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Remember when loramin use to talk about raiding but never raided even with anon? pepperidge farms remembers

If you can't win the argument, attack the messenger right?

But you've got me [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] I'm a liar and a fraud, and I almost never raided with Anonymous. I certainly wasn't still #25 in guild DKP even when I left Blue, and certainly not after getting (among other things) two full suits of HoT armor, a sky ring, and a Vindi BP. Nope, Loramin (or my alts) never raided on Blue ...

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Dude, it's not hard: say what you want to say. Literally all you've said is the same thing over and over in new words, and all I ever do is quote you.

But if you just keep saying the same thing, I'll keep quoting you and pointing out you're saying the same thing.

I literally spelled it out clearly[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] You are trying as hard as possible to project your opinion about what I said on to my words. I cannot continue having a conversation with you when you are not arguing with me, you are arguing with your imagination of what I said.

[loramin]

EDIT: Deleted post to rewrite it a bit and accidentally wound up below Death (evidently he was waiting with baited breath to reply instantly).

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If that is your takeaway from what I said, there is the problem. It is not my opinion that is flawed, it is your reading comprehension ability that is flawed. I never said "If the game let's me do it, I can't be a dick".

I wrote the wall of text to hopefully explain missing context. Instead, you just keep tunnel visioning and misquoting.

Dude, it's not hard: say what you want to say.

Literally all you've said is the same thing, over and over in new words, and all I ever do is quote you. But I can't quote every last word, because you say a damn lot of them, especially that last giant wall of text.

If you just keep saying the same thing, of course I'll just keep quoting you and pointing out you're saying the same thing. So if you have a point other than "it's not dickishness if the rules/PNP allow it" ... then for god's sake: spit it out!