Game Mechanics: Pets should perhaps steal xp even in groups if they do 50%+ damage

[cd288]

Originally Posted by Dolalin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

More to back up the above:



http://everquest.allakhazam.com/story.html?story=943

Again, crucially, this describes the situation that existed *before* all the Pet XP changes that were subsequently put in. It should be relevant to how things worked in the classic era.

This seems to indicate that pets take no EXP if a group does any damage to the mob at all, unless I'm misreading it?

[Dolalin]

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This seems to indicate that pets take no EXP if a group does any damage to the mob at all, unless I'm misreading it?

That bit is explaining how things will work *in future*. They were in the middle of making some pet xp changes and were explaining how they would work to the community.

[Lojik]

If several pets are in a group, would the group have to out damage both pets, or just the highest damage pet, to avoid having pet take xp?

[Dolalin]

I would suspect they would have to outdamage every pet as an individual, not all pets combined, but I guess that's open to interpretation.

[cd288]

What am I missing about this quote you posted, which seems to indicate that pets don't take EXP from a group so long as a player does ANY damage to the mob? Doesn't this answer the question?

"Pets take 75% of the experience from a creature - if no player does damage to that creature.

This means that your pet takes no experience from you or your group unless your pet kills a monster with no help from players. As long as you or your groupmates do damage to a monster, your pet will take ZERO experience."

[Dolalin]

You're missing this:

In the past, pets would take a full share of experience if they did the most damage to a creature. We've changed this rule as follows -

We're interested in how things were in the past, because p99 is the past. This post is from 2002.

[cd288]

Originally Posted by Dolalin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're missing this:



We're interested in how things were in the past, because p99 is the past. This post is from 2002.

Ah gotcha

[DMN]

There were so many myths/claims about pets taking exp back then it's hard to keep them all straight. I certainly wouldn't trust anyone who didn't empirically test it.

[Nirgon]

Absor saying so sold it for me

[Dolalin]

I found the Hackersquest thread about how exp works in Everquest. Unfortunately web.archive.org didn't cache the direct link:

http://www.ethernalquest.com/ubb/For...ML/002742.html

But what it did cache, strangely, are the actions links in the thread, so I have all the posts in the thread from the "/postings.cgi?actions=editpost" links. I have no idea why it did this, but whatever.

Here are the posts from that thread in chronological order of what was preserved (see the "ReplyNum" query param in the URL to get a post #), I left out a few useless one-liner shitposts:

#0
Originally posted by Tyle on 05-22-2001 05:51 AM

Can anyone explain to me how this works? Like equations used to determine exp needed per level and what the deal is with hell levels as well as what levels they are? Thanks.

http://web.archive.org/web/200305272...perience+works

#2
Originally posted by casey on 05-22-2001 11:14 AM

Experience questions answered

Here are some basic constants

Class modifiers

War, Rog: .9 for level calculations, 1.0 for experience awards
wis casters: 1.0
int casters: 1.1
monks: 1.2
hybrids(sk,pal,rng,brd): 1.4

Race modifiers

Halfling: 95
Hum, eru, elf, def, hie, halfelf, dwf, gnm: 100
barb: 105
ogre: 115
troll, iks: 120

Hell modifiers:

lvl 1-29 : 10
lvl 30-34: 11
lvl 35-39: 12
lvl 40-44: 13
lvl 45-50: 14
lvl 51: 15
lvl 52: 16
lvl 53: 17
lvl 54: 19
lvl 55: 21
lvl 56: 23
lvl 57: 25
lvl 58: 27
lvl 59-60: 30

Group bonuses

solo: 1
2 man: 1.02
3 man: 1.06
4 man: 1.1
5 man : 1.14
full : 1.2

Group dist

your level / (all group members levels summated (inclding yours))

ZEM (Zone experience multiplier)

most outdoor zones: 75
most dungeons: 80
some kunark/velious dungeons: 85
underused zones (kedge, hole): 100
regardless of zone, lvl 1-6 you get a ZEM of 100


Formula:

exp needed to level (lifetime):

(lvl to attain^3)*Class mod*race mod*hell mod


exp needed in a given level:

(lifetime exp to level x) - (lifetime exp to level x-1)


exp given by a mob:

(mob lvl^2)*Class mod*ZEM*group bonus*group dist


pets:

If any single pet can do > 51% damage to a mob, he will get half experience. This will rarely happen in a group unless you are using some badass charmed pets. It *does not* matter who gets the final blow or anything else you hear, its just tied to whether or not a pet does more than half damage. I've not tested this in a group setting so i do not know whether he takes half of total exp, or just half of his owners exp.


examples:

lvl 30 DE SK needs 41,580,000 exp lvl 1-30.
((30^3)*1.4*100*11)


from lvl 29-30 dor DE SK you need: 7,433,400 exp
((30^3)*1.4*100*11)-((29^3)*1.4*100*10)


a DE SK killing a lvl 28 mob solo outdoors gets 82,320 exp
((28^2)*1.4*75*1*1)

a lvl 31 DE SK in a group of lvls 29, 30, 38 killing a lvl 35 mob in a dungeon will get 36550 exp
((35^2)*1.4*80*1.1*.242) .242 = 31/(31+29+30+38)


from here you can extrapolate many quantites (kills to level, time per kill, time to level). If you take exp to level for lvl 1-2, 2-3....59-60, you will also see why hell levels exist, just a mathematical effect of the way they chose to manage these equations.

any other questions?

#5
Originally posted by Random on 05-22-2001 05:04 PM

Casey there is a small error : a few patch ago the modifier for all class have been set to 1 (rog & war still have 0.9)

#8
Originally posted by casey on 05-22-2001 10:52 PM

random: no

pre exp-patch, class modifier was not part of the experience aware. now it is, it has the effects of negating the class modifier in the exp needed to level.

again, it was not taken out, it was mearly compensated for.

ally: please do a little research before pulling shit like that out of your ass and trying to pass it off as fact.

I'll say it again just for the likes of you.

Pets:

pet does 51% damage, pet gets 50% exp
pet does <50% damage, pet gets 0% exp

in a group, pet gets 0% exp unless he can outdamage the *entire group*

the things i posted have been pretty thouroughly tested with showeq. Mostly while i was updating the experience window code so that it works properly with the new sysetm, and allows ZEM's to be specified by the .map


So again, if anyone has questions or wants me to clarify something for you, by all means post. But do not post something you heard somewhere else unless you have something to back you up.

#12
Originally posted by casey on 05-23-2001 02:31 AM

pet info updated

pets:

pet and you solo: pet does >= 51%, pet gets half exp
pet does < 50%, oet gets 0% exp

pet in group: pet does >=51% total damage, he takes exp as if he were a memeber
of the group.
pet does < 50% damage, pet takes no exp.


thanks to someonewhoknows <img src="http://web.archive.org/web/20030527223548im_/http://www.ethernalquest.com/ubb/smile.gif">

#17
Originally posted by ally_mcbulemia on 05-23-2001 11:57 PM

casey, one mod to your data. Pets don't take 50% of the exp unless it's just you and the pet. In a group, the pet takes a portion as if it was a member of the group.

that is what someonewhoknows posted regarding the pet exp.

#20
Originally posted by casey on 05-24-2001 11:39 PM

thanks jafo and ratt for helpiong clarify to those who didnt take the time to fully read my post.

Anyone who wishes to further question "exp penalties were removed", feel free to read your file src/experiencelog.cpp in the showeq source tree. Notice the calculations it performs, and notice it works (+/- a % in certain group exp awards, i still need to fix that), and then come back and tell me i i'm using the wrong equations.

ally: you're friend is letting his pet do all the work, have him summon a pet and to make sure it does not do >50% damage, have him hotkey /pet back off. Never let the pet start attacking and you will notice he will get full exp.

and you're little clarification is exactly what i said, except you dont recognize the fact that in any case if a pet cant do 50% total damage or more, he will neer take experience.

Again,
pet does <50% total damage
get gets no experience, solo or group

pet does >50% total damage
solo: takes half exp
group: group exp is divided as if there were another memeber, the extra memeber being the pet.

So when fighting in a group, more pets are better, as its harder for any single pet to do more than half damage.