Best 4 person all caster/priest group

[Balimon]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The Enchanters are providing the vast majority of the DPS via charmed pets. The Mage pet isn't doing that much hehe. Shamans can do fine DPS-wise.

Shaman pet has 2400 HP with FoS, and you can Torpor it. That is decently tanky. A Water pet only has 2500 HP hehe. It is providing security just fine, plus all the Shaman healing/slows/buffs.

I am not considering Epic Pets, because that is just really rare hehe. There are a LOT more Torpor Shamans than Epic Mages.

Water pets have significantly more than 2500 HP when focused. It's well over 3k, I haven't tested but a focused 59 air pet is 2900ish HP. You can't really compare a shaman pet to a focused air/water pet or even a unfocused 57 earth, they are also way higher level which makes a huge difference in damage mitigation.

[Balimon]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yeah I would love to see some mage DPS data. I could provide the Shaman DPS data.

A max level focused water pet can do 45-50 DPS on Vindi, so for group content you could expect probably closer to 60? 33 point DS is obviously a large amount of DPS but would parse differently on every encounter, and then you can add in nukes situationally. I don't have any parses to offer but I think it's safe to say that a mage could do 70ish at least in a group setting.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Balimon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Water pets have significantly more than 2500 HP when focused. It's well over 3k, I haven't tested but a focused 59 air pet is 2900ish HP. You can't really compare a shaman pet to a focused air/water pet or even a unfocused 57 earth, they are also way higher level which makes a huge difference in damage mitigation.

Torpor also makes a huge difference in mitigation. Shaman pet is suprisingly tanky on P99.

Most DPS is still coming from the Charmed pets. DS doesn't matter if your Water pet is backstabbing.

Thanks for the DPS data though! I'll see what my Shaman does.

[Keebz]

Originally Posted by Balimon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A max level focused water pet can do 45-50 DPS on Vindi, so for group content you could expect probably closer to 60? 33 point DS is obviously a large amount of DPS but would parse differently on every encounter, and then you can add in nukes situationally. I don't have any parses to offer but I think it's safe to say that a mage could do 70ish at least in a group setting.

Can also count the DPS from muzzling the chanter pets if they aren't using something like Tola Robes.

[Raj]

Sorry DSM, but shaman and enchanter together always created a bit of redundancy in classic EQ. 2 chanters + mage + cleric is far more dps/raw power than shammy + 2 chanters + cleric.

It should be no great mystery why...just like the druid in EQ, the shaman is also a hybrid spellcaster. Druid is a cleric/wizard hybrid with a good damage shield, run speed, regen, + minor str buffs for some uniqueness.

In EQ, the shaman is a hybrid of cleric, enchanter, and necro - with potionmaking, stat buffs, run speed buffs, and a nice resistance debuff shared with mages for a bit more uniqueness... in exchange for all this hybridness, there is no paci/charm ability from the parent enchanter class, no CH/rez from parent cleric class just like druid, far less dot lines than necro, far weaker pet than necro.

Shaman is a very powerful class but way too redundant with 2 enchanters and a competent cleric and mage if you're going for some rhetorical optimal combo of spell-casters.

PS With cleric buffs and a competent cleric with c2, a charmed pet should not require torpor in 95% of normal situations with level 60 or near-that enchanters, and torpor nerfs the hell out of any hasted melee's DPS......especially a dual-wielding enchanter hasted charm pet

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

DS doesn't matter if your Water pet is backstabbing.

You put the damage shield on the Enchanter pet (or whatever tank in a group). Your Ogre Brain strikes yet again.

Originally Posted by Keebz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Can also count the DPS from muzzling the chanter pets

Yep. Mage is way more DPS than a Shaman.

Originally Posted by Raj [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sorry DSM, but shaman and enchanter together always created a bit of redundancy in classic EQ.

I prefer Shaman over Cleric much of the time for a group where the Enchanter pet isn't tanking. You don't need the C-heal in that case, and in those groups a Shaman contributes more DPS than a Cleric while at the same time keeping people alive. If there is no Mage in the group, then the Shaman also provides resist debuff, making things much smoother with the pet.

[Raj]

In my experience, great enchanters LOVE grouping with very competent clerics more than almost anything else? Malosinia is pretty nice but it's not a very competent cleric w everything a great cleric brings to the table.

[Zuranthium]

I mean sure, Enchanter + Cleric is an incredibly powerful duo, and any group formed around that can do well. I just think Shaman is more optimal a lot of the time if the pet isn't going to be tanking (and thus doesn't benefit from C-heal).

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You put the damage shield on the Enchanter pet (or whatever tank in a group). Your Ogre Brain strikes yet again.

Big yikes insulting people. You shouldn't be so aggressive when trying to make points. I made a simple mistake and thought she was talking about pet DPS. Unlike yourself, I can admit when I made a mistake[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] DS won't matter much on a slowed mob though, so it's still heavily dependent on the situation.

Muzzles are irrelevant in an Enchanter/Enchanter/Cleric group, because Tolapumj's Robe is just so cheap. If you want to maximize DPS, you would be using those.

My Shaman does around 35 DPS, so honestly not that much lower than the 40-50 number thrown around. The extra mana saving is going to help your party more by reducing downtime than a bit of extra DPS. The 35 DPS number I am getting is taking into account the fact that I am also doing healing/slowing while face tanking. If I could just do damage without needing to do that due to Enchanter pets tanking, the number would be higher. I could JBB click while DoTs are ticking, or stack more DoTs. Remember, a Torpor Shaman can consistently deal spell damage due to how quickly the regain mana, while a Mage would need to meditate if they are trying to nuke often.

Before level 60 Mage is better, but with Torpor a Shaman is just going to be better for this group. The Enchanter pets are putting out enough DPS. The question is how often can you prevent charm issues, and how consistent can you be. An extra 5-10 DPS isn't going to save your group from bad luck, or med breaks.

[Troxx]

Cleric and ench duo are already wickedly OP. Add a second ench for 2nd pet and backup cc and it’s that much easier. So yeah 3/4 are spoken for.

Remaining options:

-druid (lol no)

-wizard (lol even more no)

-shaman: gives you redundant slows you don’t need, heals you won’t need, buffs you won’t need, a pet that sucks and malo (value added). Dots will not add much as with 2 ench pets nothing is alive long. Malo is good but shamans don’t have a monopoly on this line. Shaman isn’t a terrible choice, but you’re bringing along a class that can’t contribute as much as other options

-mage: strong pet for additional dps and backup tanking (value added), malo (value added), mod rods (value added), coth (value added for both mobility and aggro wipe mechanics), pet haste masks (value added as pets are literally all your dps) … and when all else is covered and nothing else needed, nifty nuke burn potential.

-necro: decent pet choices for additional dps and backup tanking (value added), twitches (value added), additional cc (value added root and screaming), backup heals (probably not needed but value added), FD (value added and opens up some content), snare (meh but value added?), backup rez (value added) … and when all else is covered they can burn extra mana nuking stuff down or just twitching.


So yeah in this theoretical best of the best it’s either
-clr/ench/ench/mage if you don’t need a FD split
-clr/ench/ench/nec if FD split would be useful or at a tougher camp that may benefit from the expanded necro tool kit (but you lose malo)

Shaman are a top notch class but compared to mage or necro … relative dead weight only contributing redundant bs you don’t really need. A competent cleric can easily manage 2 charming enchanters cross covering cc … and healing a charm pet is so laughably easy you don’t need slow … and when you do enchanters can do that too last I checked.


I fully expect a literal tidal wave of dissenting responses from DSM but I call em like I see em.