ToV and pulling mobs.

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by Pint [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A train is not your responsibility until you drop it where ever that may be, the train is on you until it resets and is no longer a liability to other raids. Now who is being obtuse, you guys are incredible.

Ok, so next time someone decides to train everything out to grab statue I'm going to park my raid force at upper arena, and when the unaggroed mobs path back and eat my raid force in going to demand a concession. Oh wait, it's never worked like that. Not fear, not hate, not VP, not anywhere.

[Pint]

Basically what I'm getting from you is that next trak spawn I can train jugs past the mtn then drop them and when they path back over the mtn and aggro your raid its all good bc I'm no longer responsible for that train. You really thought this one through, props.

[Pint]

Being responsible for your train/kite was specifically created bc of pofear! You're off your rocker.

[Erati]

damnit BDA took over this thread too

So a Lord in NTOV spawns- 4 guilds are at the Ikky/Eashen stairs

There are drakes that guard the Lords which have to be killed. Why is it unreasonable to have agreements surrounding those guards which unlock engagements on the named ?

If we kill flurry drake guards you better believe the named will then be pulled out right after

[Erati]

another idea - for NTOV mobs

raid forces must be parked at the zone in - and we COH race for them all

if we cant pull mobs out of the wing - we then remove the advantage of socking. Lets race for em all

This way guilds cant be trained by being set up too close bc we would be all be actively racing / setting up.

[Pint]

Originally Posted by Erati [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

damnit BDA took over this thread too

So a Lord in NTOV spawns- 4 guilds are at the Ikky/Eashen stairs

There are drakes that guard the Lords which have to be killed. Why is it unreasonable to have agreements surrounding those guards which unlock engagements on the named ?

If we kill flurry drake guards you better believe the named will then be pulled out right after

It is not unreasonable at all but it is a perfect example of sandbagging the issue at hand to try and push an agenda instead of solving the issue that the thread is actually addressing. Or were you going to pull those guards to wtov first then kill the dragon?

Also why the fuck am I having to defend server rules that have been rules for years in this thread. Why are we going to pretend like Chest doesn't understand rules that everyone has known and been abiding by for YEARS.

[Erati]

Originally Posted by Pint [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It is not unreasonable at all but it is a perfect example of sandbagging the issue at hand to try and push an agenda instead of solving the issue that the thread is actually addressing. Or were you going to pull those guards to wtov first then kill the dragon?

Also why the fuck am I having to defend server rules that have been rules for years in this thread. Why are we going to pretend like Chest doesn't understand rules that everyone has known and been abiding by for YEARS.

I am not sand bagging anything - Rampage hasnt even bothered to comment on this thread at all

how can we agree ( all the guilds here ) to anything before they say hello?

The entire point I am making and please dont misconstrue it- Once an agreement like this is made, it seems very unlikely it will ever get undone and thusly we will forever be locked with killing dragons in the wing they spawn ( KIWIS - Kill In Wing It Spawns ) and then doubly locked in when they classically perma root some of the Lords and other dragons.

So while we are here to make ToV a better place - I feel the KIWIS rule needs to come hand and in with some kind of engagement understanding as leap frogging will take over as the 'new training'.

If you dont believe me well you were not in NTOV during the first Velious sim repop. Its all about who can clear the drake guards for the other guild.

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by Pint [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It is not unreasonable at all but it is a perfect example of sandbagging the issue at hand to try and push an agenda instead of solving the issue that the thread is actually addressing. Or were you going to pull those guards to wtov first then kill the dragon?

Also why the fuck am I having to defend server rules that have been rules for years in this thread. Why are we going to pretend like Chest doesn't understand rules that everyone has known and been abiding by for YEARS.

The only person pushing an agenda is you Pint. You want to be rewarded for socking right near the mob spawn and you want to stop anyone from pulling anywhere near you. You made a camp at a bottleneck then screamed when mobs walked through there. It's being willfully ignorant.

Trak vs ToV is apples to fucking oranges, stop trying to frame the argument for the purposes of ForumQuest. I'm interested in relevant rules that don't boil down to "sock the mob" and I have absolutely no interest in rhetoric like "leapfrogging is raiding, learn to compete nub"

Y'all let me know when you'd like to have an actual conversation about how to solve the problem, until then BDA will abide by the initial agreement.

[Detoxx]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

"Control the train" has always referred to not dropping the adds on a waiting raid force. Anytime Detoxx has screamed train from a BDA kill it's been because mobs have pathed back (unaggroed) and hey caught aggro. The rule isn't "take the mobs back to where you found them" You know that.

I think you've lost your mind. To insinuate that it is not the responsibility of the person pulling a massive train, peeling a mob, dropping the train or sometimes even the mob, is just mind boggling. My mage would not have agroed any mobs had you not trained them all the way past our camp, flopped them and then failed the pull letting not only the train path back, but Ikatiar.

Try to use some common sense.

[Drakakade]

Any guild which pulls a mob out of the wing thus wiping other guilds in an attempt to get FTE should already be eating a server raid ban. The rules are clear.

Divinity has not petitioned any guild, yet. Server GMs might just slap you guys with a raid ban any ways. Forsaken has asked nicely 2 weeks in row. Divinity too.

Put an end to it, guys. IF you want to come up with some extra ideas / suggestions on how to make ToV less a cluster then giver, but the existing rule is clear.