Introducing Project 1999: Green

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Nagoya [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

EQ PvP in a nutshell: people having fun at the expense of someone else's fun and calling it fun for everyone cause that's how you remember it.

Can't make this shit up ^^
Thanks for reminding us why EQ PvP will never really be a good thing, unfortunately.

(PS: I'm 100% for having a new pvp server for you guys to have an illusion of fun (and/or real fun whatever) none-the-less, sounds good in my book go for it ^3^)

This is why the next Red P99 server needs to be teams!

PvP attracts griefers ("killers" in the Bartle taxonomy of player types). If you have all vs. all PvP (in any game), those griefers will direct their attention to the most vulnerable, ie. low level characters. This naturally discourages server growth (see Red).

But with any kind of team-based PvP, that killer/griefer energy is channeled. Instead of the griefer being a reason to quit the server, the griefer just becomes another villain for the players of the other team to defeat.

There's a reason why successful MMOG PvP is team-based (WoW, DaoC, etc.)

[Riiyan]

Can we get some type of donation feedback prior to server releasing? Like are we on track with the current donations to procure new equipment? Is this going to be a problem at current donation rates?

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Riiyan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Can we get some type of donation feedback prior to server releasing? Like are we on track with the current donations to procure new equipment? Is this going to be a problem at current donation rates?

Historically that hasn't been Rogean's style. P99 isn't a non-profit, so they don't have to disclose anything: your money essentially goes into a black box. In fact, Rogean mentioning that the new Green hardware is expensive is probably the closest he's ever come to giving any info whatsoever about P99's finances.

To be clear, I'm not trying to imply that anyone is secretly profiting off P99. All it takes is a little "back of the envelope" math to realize that clearly isn't the case. I'm also not suggesting that the (relatively tiny) Project 1999 should file as a 501c non-profit org [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm just saying, this is a small fan project, and they seem to have an attitude of "we'll take what we can get in donations, we'll pay for the rest out of pocket, and doing anything more (like providing transparency) is too much hassle". That's worked for them in the past, and it hasn't stopped people from donating in spite of it.

[BlackBellamy]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

...it hasn't stopped people from donating in spite of it.

I donated based on past value [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] This way I can't be disappointed about how I spent it.

[Nagoya]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is why the next Red P99 server needs to be teams!

PvP attracts griefers ("killers" in the Bartle taxonomy of player types). If you have all vs. all PvP (in any game), those griefers will direct their attention to the most vulnerable, ie. low level characters. This naturally discourages server growth (see Red).

But with any kind of team-based PvP, that killer/griefer energy is channeled. Instead of the griefer being a reason to quit the server, the griefer just becomes another villain for the players of the other team to defeat.

There's a reason why successful MMOG PvP is team-based (WoW, DaoC, etc.)

I did enjoy Warhammer: Age of Reckoning quite a lot and I understand what you mean.

However, as the other poster said, EQ PvP, team or not, is often zone line ganking or killing someone camping something, etc. It is not only the team or no team, but the very design of the game that doesn't make for a very healthy PvP in my opinion.

And I like the vibe of an EQ PvP server believe me (we had fun with Shrub for a tiny bit on that Rallos Zek server eh! Hi Shrub /o/) - but I always feel that in the end the game wasn't meant for this.

That being said, I have like 7 toons on Red, and if there is a new PvP server on Project 1999 I will probably play as well [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Nagoya]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Historically that hasn't been Rogean's style. P99 isn't a non-profit, so they don't have to disclose anything: your money essentially goes into a black box. In fact, Rogean mentioning that the new Green hardware is expensive is probably the closest he's ever come to giving any info whatsoever about P99's finances.

To be clear, I'm not trying to imply that anyone is secretly profiting off P99. All it takes is a little "back of the envelope" math to realize that clearly isn't the case. I'm also not suggesting that the (relatively tiny) Project 1999 should file as a 501c non-profit org [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm just saying, this is a small fan project, and they seem to have an attitude of "we'll take what we can get in donations, we'll pay for the rest out of pocket, and doing anything more (like providing transparency) is too much hassle". That's worked for them in the past, and it hasn't stopped people from donating in spite of it.

good one loramin.
riiyan's post history makes me affraid that his question was not innocent at all.
a donation is by definition a gift, no strings attached.
give if you want, don't give if you don't want.
don't worry for their finances they don't need an accountant.

[Gustoo]

On red 99 all pvp sub 60 was grief because normal people weren't trying to engage in pvp at level 20 in unrest because they stood to lose exp (non rezzable) and time and fall behind on grinding. If all 15 noobs in zone band together and kill the griefer in max droppable gear he is back there in 5 minutes smashing them with nothing lost at all.

That's because no item loot and bad custom ruleset.

On item loot ganking this lone wolf fool for loot is priority 1 for anyone with a brain it's way more fun to try to get an fbss than to kill a few more ghouls.

Other would be griefers also make other griefers targets because there is something to actually gain.

Griefers also think twice before coming out with the big guns and start to bag gear like losers and therefore become easy to kill when things get dicey. All in all rallos zek rules 1000x better for lowbie nakeds who have nothing to lose. All mellee can use free banded for life and casters literally need nothing to pwn other nakeds in classic era

A majorly broken mechanic that I'm sure staff won't bring back is the old deleveling mechanic which allowed players to retain their full skill level despite character level decrease. These deleveled epic psychopaths were truly unkillable zone bosses and the sinister joy of those griefers may never be heard in games again except in the halls of vallhalla. This was the major thing that broke the above game play on live.

That deleveling isn't possible here (while retaining skills) and epic weapons I believe have level requirements here which changes things as well.

[Gustoo]

Teams with large level range and again zero reward for lowbie to fight just encourages the same garbage can grief that red 99 saw. Bad team gets to see it as their job to grief enemy team in noov zone until enemy team hi levels come to defend it. Those defenders always have better things to do and never get anything except hero points for defending the lowbies. This is a bad dynamic and is basically going to result in same problems seen on red99 custom pvp server.

And I am skeptical about super custom teams server given our track record here.

So back to rallos or discord.

[Cyph]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Historically that hasn't been Rogean's style. P99 isn't a non-profit, so they don't have to disclose anything: your money essentially goes into a black box. In fact, Rogean mentioning that the new Green hardware is expensive is probably the closest he's ever come to giving any info whatsoever about P99's finances.

To be clear, I'm not trying to imply that anyone is secretly profiting off P99. All it takes is a little "back of the envelope" math to realize that clearly isn't the case. I'm also not suggesting that the (relatively tiny) Project 1999 should file as a 501c non-profit org [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm just saying, this is a small fan project, and they seem to have an attitude of "we'll take what we can get in donations, we'll pay for the rest out of pocket, and doing anything more (like providing transparency) is too much hassle". That's worked for them in the past, and it hasn't stopped people from donating in spite of it.

I was about to post something similar but thankfully we have other people that share this mindset. Maybe we could have some indication to what a donation and amount would cover, for example, "A $50 donation covers the operational cost of [something] for [duration].".

[Videri]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

PvP attracts griefers ("killers" in the Bartle taxonomy of player types).

Wow Loramin, very interesting! I had heard of some kind of four-quadrant taxonomy, but I hadn't read into it much. It seems as though there is a competing four-quadrant model, as well. I might start a thread about this.

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you have all vs. all PvP (in any game), those griefers will direct their attention to the most vulnerable, ie. low level characters. This naturally discourages server growth (see Red).

But with any kind of team-based PvP, that killer/griefer energy is channeled. Instead of the griefer being a reason to quit the server, the griefer just becomes another villain for the players of the other team to defeat.

There's a reason why successful MMOG PvP is team-based (WoW, DaoC, etc.)

Hmm, food for thought.