Classic vs. Challenge

[Misek84]

I think people are confusing classic diffuculty with progressive server difficulty.

[Lazie]

I just think we have a case of overreacting here is all.

[Tickle-me-tiggle]

Originally Posted by ArumTP [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No "hard mode". Classic mode only. Stuff across the board needs proper tune.

Those dragons(woushi) are some serious BS.

Bags is something like something we just never remembered. Resist gear pointless is something that all feels wrong.

You do realize wuoshi was designed to be done by a SMALLER group, as in it's easier the less people that you bring.

[Daldaen]

Originally Posted by Tickle-me-tiggle [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You do realize wuoshi was designed to be done by a SMALLER group, as in it's easier the less people that you bring.

This makes no sense.

Nothing in Classic EQ is easier with fewer people unless you're surrounded by idiots training you.

In Luclin in an event like Shei where death adds spawn, sure. But Classic-Velious, nothing is easier with fewer people. Zerg is the name of the game. Thus the IB-ATeam merger and the TMO-Lord Bob merger. Expect to see more mergers and alliances in Velious. Numbers will win fights especially if resists continue to not have a huge impact.

[Treats]

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This makes no sense.

Nothing in Classic EQ is easier with fewer people unless you're surrounded by idiots training you.

In Luclin in an event like Shei where death adds spawn, sure. But Classic-Velious, nothing is easier with fewer people. Zerg is the name of the game. Thus the IB-ATeam merger and the TMO-Lord Bob merger. Expect to see more mergers and alliances in Velious. Numbers will win fights especially if resists continue to not have a huge impact.

Gear was the name of the game.

Zerging did not really work, hence why the 72 player raid limit was introduced in Planes of Power from the Rallos Zek fiasco.

[Raev]

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Numbers will win fights especially if resists continue to not have a huge impact.

This. Having max TOV north gear won't mean anything when you get hit consistently at the resist cap.

[Daldaen]

Originally Posted by Treats [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Gear was the name of the game.

Zerging did not really work, hence why the 72 player raid limit was introduced in Planes of Power from the Rallos Zek fiasco.

Zerging did work and PoP didn't have a raid cap of 72, that was changed in LoY (PoPs raid cap was 60 because the raid window only allowed for 10 group leaders as opposed to the 12 it displayed... WOMP WOMP!). The real way they fixed zerging was punishing mechanics and instances limiting player numbers. PoTime before it was instanced was able to limit player numbers as well, but it was its own sort of "instance" in that it required players zoning in to trigger timers etc.

BUT that aside. Zerging will work. If tomorrow BDA, Rampage, and Taken all merged, and had 200 players raiding day 1. I don't care what AE there is. Mobs will be dropping like flies. AEs have set timers and none are able to one shot level 60s. Having raids of upwards of 100 members, which I don't doubt some guilds and alliances will have (Gimpatron, TMO, CSG, Rampage, Taken and BDA have all fielded raids of upwards of 70 members for 5 year old Kunark shit), will be the determining factor in fights where resists become irrelevant due to resist code.

I'm classic as shit. I LOVE that resists are hard capped at 255. But there needs to be some balancing when it comes to resists. Both for players being able to land on red con mobs and red con raid mobs sticking every AE on players.

Wycca has a few threads on fire resistances. Dain, Vindi, Statue are all resisting far too often for what they should be. Level 70 Raid bosses are sticking their non-Lure/Dragon AEs (those without -Resist checks) every time for full durations at 255 resist on level 60 raiders. This isn't correct. Raev has a post on this.

May 30th is a bit too soon to be launching this if we want it launched in such a way that we will be reliving a classic experience. Thus far in beta, they've done a great job with the limited testing that players here have done. But when it comes to resists specifically, there needs to be a major revamp. There has to be a forced beta week with a few different builds of the resist code tested out so that it can be ironed out to a point where at 255 against level 70 mobs, your level 60 raider will be hit maybe half the time and many of those fears are short duration. Where the mobs which were historically easy to nuke with a certain resist are getting hit as they should.

And ideally, if bard stacking could be implemented in some manner (I know this is a long shot). Maybe just something as simple as changing the slots on Occlussion such that it conflicts with nothing, like it did back in classic, would be a great start.

As said before, these classic raids of a decent balance of players with great gear, resists and strategy could down most all raid mobs with raids of 50 players. On any AE fight where 90% of your raid is getting feared and most of them are getting mad duration fears, even when all are 200-255 MR... That 50 man raid no longer has a shot. It now requires a much larger raid of zerglings who just claw at the mob until it dies. No amount of resist gear will matter when 255 MR raiders are taking full duration fears one after another.

[wycca]

As far as PC spells on NPC - Raid mob resists definitely need more testing. Just hasn't been alot of systematic testing of those, and to be fair, without that, it's hard to make a solid case for the GM's to modify. So far the stuff with the most feedback has been tweaked to be decent (ie MR on slowable mobs is the prime example - altho all of them certainly havent been tested), the other resists...

I will say that ToV trash resists look pretty good - been in both NToV and EToV and as a wizard & watching our debuffers those seem good.

As far as NPCs casting on PCs - Meh.

[Raev]

Originally Posted by wycca [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As far as NPCs casting on PCs - Meh.

You want it to be harder than classic so that not everything is stomped on day 1 and the R guilds are completely screwed. I don't really like this: the sign on the door says Classic EverQuest. But the whole point of this thread is that if we are going to deliberately depart from classic we should do it in a systematic way rather than 'oh well, we just won't fix the resists'.

[dbouya]

velious raids were a bit harder than kunark raids and a lot of guilds in 2001 expanded their roster quite a bit to have more people in attendence for the velious raids than they'd needed for kunark.

our guild in particular adopted another small guild for kael raids.


the only real reason people didn't zerg was that in 2001 if you brought 100people to a raid the game crashed (either players clients or the server itself).