Raid Rules Alternative

[mitic]

Originally Posted by Erasong [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You should not be given a boss mob simply becuase you play here. Sorry but just no. If thats the case lets give out a starter package to everyone who rolls on the server of 1 yak 1 fbss 1 SMR and 1 GEB's simply for deciding this is the server for them. these tiems are always camped and they deserve it too right? I dont know why you feel you deserve free stuff but ya. Im sorry if this came out as a flame. it wasnt intended too. I just feel strongly about it. Camping/mobilizing/batphoning may not seem like work to you ( in fact id agree ), but the fact is that IS the work required in a GAME to achieve certain goals and not just in the raid scene. Who has gotten an FBSS without SOMEONE camping it or the cash to buy it? Ive raced for 6 man mobs before also.

just having the opportunity to engange a mob doesnt mean that the mob will be killed. if a guild fails then it will be passed to the next one in line. sounds easy, rite?

[Lucrio40]

This is how raid targets should be decided.

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[astarothel]

Originally Posted by mitic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

so what am i generalizing?

the fact that only IB and DA are scouting or camping boss mobs 24/7 rite now and will for the weeks/months to come?
the fact that changing engage timers to 2 or 6 hours wont change anything since the rest of the server has jobs and families?
the fact that a calendar WILL give EVERYONE the oportunity to kill bosses?

please, enlighten me and tell me how iam generalizing FACTS

how are Divinity and Remedy getting some kills and loot then? Magic?

Time invested needs to have a corresponding value placed upon it.
A straight enforced rotation denies this simple and accepted truth.

Trans seems unwilling to accept anything less than a straight enforced rotation. At least Fish Bait had the balls to say "fuck you, we won't follow your rules" when they refused to negotiate.

[Taxi]

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[mitic]

Originally Posted by astarothel [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Time invested needs to have a corresponding value placed upon it.
A straight enforced rotation denies this simple and accepted truth.

remedy "invests" 18 hours total per week (fixed days) on raids for ~2 months now. so it have been 90 hours for 1 opportunity so far to hit a boss since inno was up that evening we raided

i think there is some misscalculation in your "corresponding value to time invested"

right now its more like: play 24/7 and ull get the lewtz

[Aadill]

Originally Posted by mitic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

right now its more like: play 24/7 and ull get the lewtz

Suffice to say, it is. The easiest solution, as we've seen it from multiple guilds, is recruitment of players in all time zones to allow for a large enough of a force to maintain the upper hand. That's not ideal, but everyone wants to win.

To be blunt: you've put about as much work in as anyone else but haven't gone the extra mile of seeing through to the end result. You invested 90 hours and received one shot at Innoruuk. I'm glad you had a chance at him as he's got a fairly large amount of items for anyone on the raid to enjoy. The problem is those hours weren't consecutive. We just spent, what? 96 consecutive hours for Innoruuk?

We aren't entitled to more, but we were willing to stick it out till the end result. We invested just as much time in less than a week than you did in 2 months. There are two ends of the spectrum here.

[Aadill]

Getting back on topic. Reposted from other thread:

Dumesh's idea still focuses on FFA and is only really applicable, as he said, to outside boss encounters. There are no outside boss encounters right now that are appropriate for this sort of thing unless you have very particular stipulations for CT. For future encounters it may be useful but you're relying on everyone to have the same timer, and to respect it. Not to mention the fact that by attempting to steal agro, you're pretty much going against server rules of attempting to KS engaged mobs. Find me a situation where you're not going to have an opposing raid force attempting to agro the mob off of the original kiter. If, on the flipside, you are saying that once agro a guild would have 15 minutes to get ready and engage while the kiter(s) kite, we might be on to something. I will say that for all of the outside dragons in Kunark and Velious, this is a pretty good idea. A guild can claim the spawn by actually having it agroed. If their guild fails to mobilize and engage the target within a set time period, they would lose their claim. No other guild will be able to interact with the dragon unless the kiters from the first guild die. I would expect some level of whining and foul play, though. Damaging a mob to make it summon would be the biggest offense, here. In the event of that, I hope the guild with claim would be ready to engage very quickly, but it defeats the level of respect that would need to be present for this rule to work. If we can calm down the current raiding environment, I would consider this one hell of a pro idea for later expansions and hope that it could discussed in the next guild meeting!

[astarothel]

Originally Posted by mitic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

i think there is some misscalculation in your "corresponding value to time invested"

right now its more like: play 24/7 and ull get the lewtz

7*24=168

168 >> 18

there is no miscalculation.

[Datante]

Originally Posted by Ektar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What happens when two people sit on nagafen's spawn point? We're both staring intently at the screen, and both hit taunt or attack or whatever immediately.

YES naggy did have first agro on someone, but that will NOT be determined until after the ensuing clusterfuck of both guilds thinking they were first. Furthermore how will it be determined? By a gm's logs; which is trying to be avoided.

Ektar, this was my major concern as well, and the primary problem with FFA regardless if all of the guilds are trying to abide by player-driven rules.

Could this be fixed by a coded script from the developers that had the boss mob shout out the very first character to gain aggro after the spawn? It would be like a CT with no DT kind of situation.

If this shout script is put in place, FFA becomes a real possibility. Example: Nagafen shouts, "TANK1, you fool! Prepare to die!" and Tank1's guild then has a time limit to fully engage the mob as described by Dumesh. The specifics of when the first guild is said to have 'failed' can be further discussed. Real-time skill can be important again.

[Aadill]

Originally Posted by Datante [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ektar, this was my major concern as well, and the primary problem with FFA regardless if all of the guilds are trying to abide by player-driven rules.

Could this be fixed by a coded script from the developers that had the boss mob shout out the very first character to gain aggro after the spawn? It would be like a CT with no DT kind of situation.

If this shout script is put in place, FFA becomes a real possibility. Example: Nagafen shouts, "TANK1, you fool! Prepare to die!" and Tank1's guild then has a time limit to fully engage the mob as described by Dumesh. The specifics of when the first guild is said to have 'failed' can be further discussed. Real-time skill can be important again.

That is definitely a viable solution. Sometimes agro is random, though. You'd really have to hope to be in range to attack, taunt, or shoot a bow to ensure first agro otherwise you'll be super mad when some afk dude happens to grab agro first. Other than that it would at least add the argument of "we aggroed first so step down till we win or lose." I assume a zonewide shout would be the easiest way to also catch it in logs if anyone chose to take an issue to a GM.