Impeaching President Trump

[Teppler]

Originally Posted by Argh [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The funniest thing about all this is that the prosecutor that the US/EU wanted fired was refusing to cooperate with the UK authorities in a money laundering investigation of Burisma and its owner, which is why they wanted this prosecutor fired.

Democratic talking heads are so afraid of saying anything at all about Biden/Ukraine other than it's a hoax (sound familiar?) or that it's been debunked that they don't give any details/facts on the matter and trust that people can come to that conclusion on their own.

Politician's have absolutely no faith in the public's intelligence (though, reading this thread is probably good example of why they shouldn't--on either side) and are so afraid to say anything that can be used as a sound bite in a 15 second political ad put out by the opposition that they refuse to acknowledge what is plainly obvious: Hunter Biden has been exploiting his father's position and family name for profit throughout his entire career.

Is it illegal? No. Is it unethical? Yes. Does it have anything to do with Joe Biden? Not really.

NYT article from 2015 that is often referenced regarding this

NPR interview with Jame's Risen (the author of that article)

They’ve been counting on being the party of global elites that controls the spread of information via all media. I was once taught that lying in the media is not all about misleading people. Communist countries would often use it as demotivational tactics against people fighting against them. It’s can be very demoralizing being lied right to your face and having nothing you can do about it.

[Horza]

Sean Hannity’s Fiona Hill monologue didn’t feature a single word from Fiona Hill.

But if you simply tuned in to learn about the hearing, you didn’t hear a single word of what Hill actually had to say. Instead, viewers watched him dismiss Hill, who has appeared on Fox News as a foreign policy expert, as merely a “so-called Ukraine expert.”

He then mocked her for not taking seriously the conspiracy theories she dismissed during her testimony as “fictional narratives that has been perpetrated and propagated by the Russian security services themselves.”

[feniin]

Originally Posted by Horza [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I seriously doubt very many anti-Trump liberals think that Bolton is a true patriot.

I think Bolton is a patriot in his own demented way. He doesn't want to kill every foreign person on the planet for personal gain - he wants to do it to make America #1. It's commendable in a very dark, very awful way.

[Khorza]

Originally Posted by BallzDeep [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Lol guy comes here in and explains that he is coming up with some damning evidence that has been discussed already 40 times in both threads. Seems there isn't only one side with deaf ears.

I never claimed it was damning evidence, everyone had access to the transcript that the white house released. That's what's so insane about this, everyone knows that the president did this shit yet they still twist themselves into knots in an attempt to defend him.

Originally Posted by BallzDeep [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

They are saying that Trump held aid, had a conversation then released it prior to any investigation taking place.

Okay, the problem with this sentence is that you took a bunch of very important details and described that part as, "had a conversation."

You know as well as I do that the details of that conversation are the problem here. You're very obviously glossing over that part and throwing your hands up in the air like, "they just had a conversation, what's the big deal?"

Well, the big deal is that during that conversation the president of the United States asked a foreign government to meddle in an upcoming election.

That fact alone is damning, and no one is even disputing it because it's a fact. The president of the United States should be a defender of democracy, not attempting to usurp it.

Then, when you consider the context of this request it gets even worse. The president is mysteriously withholding preapproved aid to a foreign ally. This particular conversation was meant to discuss what's going on with that aid. The president then asks a foreign government to investigate his political rival. And then after this request, the aid is released.

This is pretty cut and dry my dude.

Originally Posted by BallzDeep [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Therefore, no quid pro pro. In other words, "Start the investigation first, then I'll release aid."

Yeah but, you know what you're doing here man. You're not fooling anyone. You're ignoring all of the relevant information and bringing up all of the irrelevant information. It's the same tactic that every Republican politician and pundit is using right now; it's just complete smoke and mirrors.

You don't have to declare, "THIS IS QUID PRO QUO" for it to be quid pro quo. If it walks like a duck, etc.

The chronology of the events is completely irrelevant too, but you know that. It doesn't matter when Trump released the aid. All that matters if that he made a request for Zelensky to investigate the Bidens, and Zelensky accepted that request. Nothing else has to be said, but it's clearly understood that if Zelensky doesn't meet Trump's expectations then further aid could be at risk.

You don't have to read between the lines to figure this whole scheme out, but you at least have to open your eyes to look at the words on the page.

Originally Posted by BallzDeep [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Flip the roles then ask yourself the same questions.

Nothing that I've said has been partisan. I have my own gripes with the Democrats. If the president of the United States is soliciting foreign governments to undermine the integrity of our election system, I want them removed from office regardless of their party affiliation. It's that simple.

This isn't the NFL. Stop making it about your team vs. everyone else's team. The man is a shit president, better luck next time. I voted for Obama and he turned out to be pretty lousy too. Just not quite this bad.

[feniin]

Dude, if you're not alt-right, you're wrong. amirite?

[Horza]

Originally Posted by Khorza [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The chronology of the events is completely irrelevant too, but you know that. It doesn't matter when Trump released the aid. All that matters if that he made a request for Zelensky to investigate the Bidens, and Zelensky accepted that request. Nothing else has to be said, but it's clearly understood that if Zelensky doesn't meet Trump's expectations then further aid could be at risk.

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Snagglepuss]

Just curious how you guys would view the Ukraine / impeachment debacle if Joe Biden were NOT running for President? Would he be a political rival still?

[feniin]

Originally Posted by Snagglepuss [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just curious how you guys would view the Ukraine / impeachment debacle if Joe Biden were NOT running for President? Would he be a political rival still?

He doesn't actually care about the investigation. He cares about the announcement of the investigation to damage a political rival. There was never going to be any substance behind it - it was just for show in order to add conspiracy and controversy to Biden's campaign.

So, it would have never happened if Biden wasn't running.

[Ripp]

Joe Biden is on record bragging about using Quid Pro Quo as a tactic in leveraging tax payer dollars as a weapon to stop investigators from investigating his criminal son.

But you liberals don't care about that. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Horza]

Originally Posted by feniin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

He doesn't actually care about the investigation. He cares about the announcement of the investigation to damage a political rival. There was never going to be any substance behind it - it was just for show in order to add conspiracy and controversy to Biden's campaign.

So, it would have never happened if Biden wasn't running.

Okay, that makes perfect sense. But what if it was happening?