Kabull

[Loke]

Originally Posted by lookitsjb [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A lot

So I may have been off on the time, I still don't think it was two hour long "stalls" as you initially claimed. Seems your videos back that up.

Also, still not the same. One involves letting a mob sit up for hours to avoid competition, the other involves a lengthy engage to break the aforementioned stalemate.

Additionally, wasn't Riot the guild who blew up Tunare and Ring War agreements because other guilds weren't engaging fast enough, but now have no problem leaving Vulak up for a day to give themselves an advantage?

As for the problems and having serious discussion about it, pretty sure that has been tried ad nauseam on this server and never goes anywhere. IMO, things were much better when the rules were minimal, GMs were mostly hands off, and people didn't sit around in the UN and pretend they care about anything other than maximizing their guild's targets. The UN is 90% theatre where everyone tries to act fair and reasonable, but are really just posturing. Nothing of actual value getting done in there.

[lookitsjb]

Originally Posted by Psyborg [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But it’s not the same thing. Keeping up a mob that only you can kill until your opponent can’t pull numbers is the opposite of engaging a mob with the knowledge that you will be at a disadvantage once it does. Choosing to kill the last blocker in the previous Vulak meta was a disadvantage but something that has to be done or nobody has a shot at Vulak.

Surely you can see why your example doesn’t actually align with what we saw yesterday.

I see the differences clearly to your points, yes. But surely you must see the similarities.

Having a target unengaged to reduce competition is, to your point, nothing like the Lady N engage I mentioned previously.

But, engaging a target to prevent another target from engaging with the intent to kill (admittedly) but stalling the killing blow until you can devise a plan is just as devious as leaving the target up, in that Riot could have went in and just killed it. The outcome may have been the exact same, sure. But holding a target while plans are devised and leaving a target up has the same outcome; Vulak is blocked.

Again; it's not the point I'm going for, and I don't see issue with either side for a few reasons:

Competition on this raid scene is still, if not more, toxic than when the video was taken, therefore if executing a plan to reduce competition is a guild's way of maintaining their sanity away from the toxicity, is that wrong? Would you partake in an event where, upon losing or making a mistake, you were punched in the nose? What if you could avoid the punch simply by waiting an extra 30 minutes, would you take it?

Guilds going at each other's throats non-stop just because of a tag is inane in my opinion. We want competition but can't handle it. Winners taunting losers rather than congratulating them on a good attempt, "The Slighted" doing shit that gets them banned and/or g-kicked (reference other thread for that one)... This isn't healthy. We all play P99 for some semblance of nostalgia, and instead turned being BIS into the most important thing ever on a time locked server that's already 6ish years into the current timeline, and threw a middle finger to the community that helped build this in the process.

[Loke]

Originally Posted by lookitsjb [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But, engaging a target to prevent another target from engaging with the intent to kill (admittedly) but stalling the killing blow until you can devise a plan is just as devious as leaving the target up, in that Riot could have went in and just killed it.

As previously mentioned, we wiped twice. Riot or any other guild had at least two windows to engage, and instead sat at trips CoTH spot hoping to snipe Vulak. The way you're framing what happened doesn't match what actually occurred. Riot 100% could have engaged Nev, and on more than one occasion decided not to. Us engaging is not what was blocking them, their own desire to get Vulak was.

[lookitsjb]

Originally Posted by Loke [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As previously mentioned, we wiped twice. Riot or any other guild had at least two windows to engage, and instead sat at trips CoTH spot hoping to snipe Vulak. The way you're framing what happened doesn't match what actually occurred. Riot 100% could have engaged Nev, and on more than one occasion decided not to. Us engaging is not what was blocking them, their own desire to get Vulak was.

You really wont let this go, nor will you admit that there are similarities just as much as there are differences?

You're "wipe" was your tank died and the 3 people that remained up there holding the engage died as well. You had more people up there than Riot. You were able to spare 30 people and still 1:1 contest Riot in terms of numbers.

Are you so driven by pixels that you can't even admit the similarities? Is winning so important to you? If so then you know what, I apologize for even bringing this up. You win, you are the greatest ever. I would wish you luck in your future endeavors but your sheer skill dictates that you don't need luck, because you're so amazing.

Can we move past this now, or is there some other arbitrary concept you want to gloat about completely removed from the core of all of my statements?

[Loke]

Originally Posted by lookitsjb [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You really wont let this go, nor will you admit that there are similarities just as much as there are differences?

You're "wipe" was your tank died and the 3 people that remained up there holding the engage died as well. You had more people up there than Riot. You were able to spare 30 people and still 1:1 contest Riot in terms of numbers.

Are you so driven by pixels that you can't even admit the similarities? Is winning so important to you? If so then you know what, I apologize for even bringing this up. You win, you are the greatest ever. I would wish you luck in your future endeavors but your sheer skill dictates that you don't need luck, because you're so amazing.

Can we move past this now, or is there some other arbitrary concept you want to gloat about completely removed from the core of all of my statements?

I see we've moved past the actual events in question and devolved into ad hominem attacks, nice.

I think whether or not an entity actually went for a target when presented the opportunity is relevant in a discussion about whether another entity was blocking them. It speaks to intent. If Riot had no intent on engaging Nev, as shown by them not doing so when given the opportunity; it seems disingenuous to claim we were blocking them.

In one instance a guild clearly leaves a mob up with the intent to block another guild from killing Vulak. In the other instance a guild has a prolonged engage while setting up for an instant engage on Vulak. These things are not the same.

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by lookitsjb [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

stalling the killing blow until you can devise a plan is just as devious as leaving the target up

Are you seriously going to pretend that rito does not employ this exact strategy all the damned time? I mean they did it with CT just this week alone trying to keep another guild FTE locked on it while they arranged people to screw with them against the next raid target.

[kaizersoze]

Originally Posted by Loke [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I see we've moved past the actual events in question and devolved into ad hominem attacks, nice.

I think whether or not an entity actually went for a target when presented the opportunity is relevant in a discussion about whether another entity was blocking them. It speaks to intent. If Riot had no intent on engaging Nev, as shown by them not doing so when given the opportunity; it seems disingenuous to claim we were blocking them.

In one instance a guild clearly leaves a mob up with the intent to block another guild from killing Vulak. In the other instance a guild has a prolonged engage while setting up for an instant engage on Vulak. These things are not the same.

There were people preparing to engage nev on at least one of those days that you guys stalled her. But we also cant go in and help kill your mob for you to free up Vulak either when its all thats left.

[kaizersoze]

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Are you seriously going to pretend that rito does not employ this exact strategy all the damned time? I mean they did it with CT just this week alone trying to keep another guild FTE locked on it while they arranged people to screw with them against the next raid target.

Also, lol what? You clearly were nowhere near the CT fight. That wasn't really a stall so much as people legit being super LoM and battle rezzing etc. That was a hard earned CT kill when you guys had him in your AoE pile iirc.

[Ripqozko]

double posting cause you mad

[Samoht]

So it’s just a coincidence that it took exactly 30 minutes from the FTE for it to die?