Why?

[Mandalore93]

Also, since I can't seem to find the edit button in my alcohol induced state.

I also think that most agnostics are atheists and vice versa or else functionally atheists (pantheists, spiritualists). I can't think of any atheists who are a 7 on the scale.

I'm curious where all these throat cramming atheists are coming from? Are they visiting door to door in your area? Is there an atheist church on every block where you are? Are we wielding our tax-exempt billions on forcing atheism as the new state religion? Oh...they're posting on the internet? Oh fuck! OH GOD NOOOOO. PLEASE LORD SAVE US FROM THESE MACHETE WIELDING MANIACZZZZZZ! THEY'RE GOING TO FLY PLANES INTO BUILDINGS!

Oh...that's religious people who do that? Nahhhhhhh.

But on a more serious note, grouping atheists together as a group is disingenuous at best. There are certainly those who have the same values but there's certainly not a central command structure in place such as the Catholic Church or the other sects' equivalents. Anti-theists would be a different matter though, imo.

[paulgiamatti]

Atheists who make it a point to declare their atheism are just obnoxious. I have no problem with non-believers who reject this word. If someone asks me specifically, then yes - I am an atheist. A very agnostic atheist, but an atheist nonetheless. The new atheist movement as far as I'm concerned is a waste of time. Theism is solipsistic, but so is going around shoving in everyone's face what you don't believe in. We don't need any of this - we don't need visibility, and we don't need to create an in-group/out-group mentality. Atheists are easily identifiable to one another without a movement or a banner to march under.

And w/r/t agnosticism, I still stand by my argument about knowledge having no clear distinction from belief when we're talking about theism. I don't buy the idea of an agnostic theist; this idea means the same thing to me as an intellectually dishonest theist. In other words, not actually a theist, but rather someone who merely identifies as one despite questioning their own belief or perhaps not believing at all. Ironically, an intellectually honest thing to do when you're not claiming to have god on your side.

You can't be an agnostic without lacking or, at the very least, questioning belief.

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

Originally Posted by paulgiamatti [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Atheists who make it a point to declare their atheism are just obnoxious. I have no problem with non-believers who reject this word. If someone asks me specifically, then yes - I am an atheist. A very agnostic atheist, but an atheist nonetheless. The new atheist movement as far as I'm concerned is a waste of time. Theism is solipsistic, but so is going around shoving in everyone's face what you don't believe in. We don't need any of this - we don't need visibility, and we don't need to create an in-group/out-group mentality. Atheists are easily identifiable to one another without a movement or a banner to march under.

When people in government stop ignoring the separation of church and state (either via laws, money, or the pledge of allegiance) atheists won't complain about it.

When the general population doesn't associate atheism with "devil worship" atheists won't complain about it.

I could go on but you should get the idea. If you don't, you're part of the problem.

[paulgiamatti]

Those things can be spoken out against while including believers. That's what the whole idea of secularism entails - it's about building the wall between church and state while still including religious people who understand the importance of doing so. The people who wrote the U.S. constitution were religious people, and they understood as well as any of us that a secular society includes not only freedom of religion but also freedom from religion.

The wall between church and state needs to be upheld, but we don't need to divide people in the process. A movement for atheism will only compartmentalize it and create just as many people against it as there are parading under it. If you really want a movement to represent you, join one of the many secular humanist organizations. If you want to attach yourself to an idea, attach yourself to skepticism or rationalism. If you want to devote yourself to something, become a scientist or a humanitarian.

[myriverse]

Originally Posted by fadetree [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ok, I'd like to be an Atheist. Seriously. It would help if someone could tell me how they *know* a god or gods don't exist. As an Atheist, I'd believe strictly in reason. Therefore, note that lack of evidence for is not evidence against, so all arguments beginning with 'We don't need a god to explain..' don't count. For the same reason, emotional arguments about why would we suffer if God was good, etc, don't count, as the question is not about the nature of God or gods but the existence of them.

Go.

Nothing whatsoever about the reality I interact with even comes close to suggesting that there could be a god or gods. The onus is not on atheists. It's on theists.