Hugs and Kisses XOXO

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Heebs13 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You do not need 90 people to kill a dragon - most of them can be killed with 20 to 30 people and are killed with that many people every single week on red.

No of course you don't. That was me replying to a slight misreading of his post (I read it as "it's easy to get a 90+ force together to get loot").

Originally Posted by Heebs13 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Everquest Scars of Velious did NOT master in 2001 what makes MMO raiding fun. It was novel at the time but it's boring and grueling and what we have now is an even more bastardized version of it. You might think you want what you're asking for, but you really don't.

Of course not! But for all you're posturing, you're passionately defending a game. Why? If the game is so easy, there'd be no fun to it. There'd be no reason to play.

Is it for the social aspect? Aftermath is such a fun bunch and that 90+ person chat room just can't be beat anywhere else? I doubt it.

I think, you're making one claim, that the game is pointless and easy, when it suits you, while at the same time desperately fighting to keep getting to play that pointless and easy game more than anyone else.

[Nexii]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ultimately I reject the whole "the game itself doesn't matter" mentality. We are here to play game, that's the entire point. And unless I'm mistaken the purpose of the whoie project is to enable just that: lots of people getting together to play a fun old game.

Rotations enable far more people to play the game: they let P99 do what it does better. And you know what having them, for one zone, would cost? Far, far less headaches for the staff and the "competitors' on this server having to "compete" PvE style ... like people did back on live.

Well that's where you're wrong. EQ was never about giving a participation trophy to everyone for just playing. That was the very appeal of it to hardcore gamers.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Nexii [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Well that's where you're wrong. EQ was never about giving a participation trophy to everyone for just playing. That was the very appeal of it to hardcore gamers.

Allow me to re-quote my own post for you:

Ultimately I reject the whole "the game itself doesn't matter" mentality. We are here to play game, that's the entire point. And unless I'm mistaken the purpose of the whoie project is to enable just that: lots of people getting together to play a fun old game.

Rotations enable far more people to play the game: they let P99 do what it does better. And you know what having them, for one zone, would cost? Far, far less headaches for the staff and the "competitors' on this server having to "compete" PvE style ... like people did back on live.

It's funny, I never said anything about participation trophies anywhere. I never said anything about "softcore gamers" killing Yelinak either. Maybe I didn't because nothing about rotations in any way guarantees "participation trophies", and there's nothing "hardcore" about the current system.

If anything Aftermath is the biggest giver of "participation trophies" on the server. To the vast majority of your membership that's what the loot is about: their warm body shows up, and they get some loot.

It's almost like you completely disingenuously claimed to disagree with me while actually disagreeing with a total straw man.

[Heebs13]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No of course you don't. That was me replying to a slight misreading of his post (I read it as "it's easy to get a 90+ force together to get loot").



Of course not! But for all you're posturing, you're passionately defending a game. Why? If the game is so easy, there'd be no fun to it. There'd be no reason to play.

Is it for the social aspect? Aftermath is such a fun bunch and that 90+ person chat room just can't be beat anywhere else? I doubt it.

I think, you're making one claim, that the game is pointless and easy, when it suits you, while at the same time desperately fighting to keep getting to play that pointless and easy game more than anyone else.

On the contrary, I've been pretty consistent in my complaints about the current raid scene and you can browse through my post history to prove it. My point is that making a rotation would preserve some of the worst parts of p99's raids while eliminating the only things that currently make it any fun. Rooting the raid mobs would preserve the thing the top guilds want - competition, while removing the stupid wall-staring train fest and opening up the zone to more guilds by virtue of the fact that clearing to bosses would take the bigger guilds longer than it currently does.

[Nexii]

Originally Posted by Heebs13 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

On the contrary, I've been pretty consistent in my complaints about the current raid scene and you can browse through my post history to prove it. My point is that making a rotation would preserve some of the worst parts of p99's raids while eliminating the only things that currently make it any fun. Rooting the raid mobs would preserve the thing the top guilds want - competition, while removing the stupid wall-staring train fest and opening up the zone to more guilds by virtue of the fact that clearing to bosses would take the bigger guilds longer than it currently does.

Pretty much. The only thing other than this would be to have a 2nd blue or green server. There's not a lot that can be done about overpopulation, save for making every 7 day spawn a 3 day one. But that'd be 'unclassic'...

A classic server would have had 1, maybe 2 guilds of 50 endgame raiders. Here we have AM alone with more than that (~120). AG at 100. BG+PS at 100 (50 on their own). Core at 50. It's little wonder that guilds get shut out

[Foxplay]

Tldr , pixels

[Heebs13]

Originally Posted by Nexii [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Pretty much. The only thing other than this would be to have a 2nd blue or green server. There's not a lot that can be done about overpopulation, save for making every 7 day spawn a 3 day one. But that'd be 'unclassic'...

A classic server would have had 1, maybe 2 guilds of 50 endgame raiders. Here we have AM alone with more than that (~120). AG at 100. BG+PS at 100 (50 on their own). Core at 50. It's little wonder that guilds get shut out

I think it would be pretty interesting if they did what games like Path of Exile do and just wipe the server and start over every X months. Would be fun racing to the top and not having to compete with every guild having 200 alts and 100 shared clerics and coth mages.

[Nexii]

Originally Posted by Heebs13 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think it would be pretty interesting if they did what games like Path of Exile do and just wipe the server and start over every X months. Would be fun racing to the top and not having to compete with every guild having 200 alts and 100 shared clerics and coth mages.

The idea of Green p99 was that but over 3 years. I think if it was months, you'd have to have somewhat accelerated exp or faster raid spawns (or instances). Which is kinda more like TLP servers..

[lookitsjb]

Apologies for posting and then being a bit aloof; had some IRL shit to take care of (I know, how dare I!

The initial intent of this thread wasn't to go down a "what's best for ToV" or even restructure raiding in general. It was to work together to figure out how can we fix the clusterfuckery that is concessions.

Ultimately; you're 100% correct. In most cases, it isn't just 1 guild getting fucked over but if that's the case maybe some sort of round-robin style shit goes into play?

The main issue with concessions as it stands now is people can fuck up intentionally (or not) and just say "we'll stop going for the next few". This allows them to focus in other areas of the raid scene without worrying about that one mob, and also bears 0 value if it's a target that they don't normally get anyways.

Example from some RNF threads:
- AG kites statue and concedes two
- AM pulls Eashan with an active FTE on Lady N
- AG trains Dagarn mages and doesn't allow enough time for the mages to be "ready" for CotH and pulls anyways
- AM manipulates Yeli root to hold an FTE
- PSG kills Koi off of another guild's (AM) FTE

All of these concessions just mean the guild doesn't have to bother competing for the specific mob, and it was argued in the PSG-Koi and AG-Statue that "they don't even get enough where concessions matter". So why concede? Make it so they have to contest it and relinquish loot instead.

Side note though:
Yes. NToV is fucked and rooting would probably make it a lot more competitive/easier but I wonder how it would work considering the CT fuckery. One guild clears Fear and another snipes CT. You wouldn't need to be the best guild for the crawl you'd just need to be the fastest leap-frogger.
Also from reading Braknar's discord dump; The idea of Vulak only spawning when all dragons have spawned would be awesome as well.

[Heebs13]

Originally Posted by lookitsjb [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

NToV is fucked and rooting would probably make it a lot more competitive/easier but I wonder how it would work considering the CT fuckery. One guild clears Fear and another snipes CT. You wouldn't need to be the best guild for the crawl you'd just need to be the fastest leap-frogger.

Leapfrogging would be possible but there's a good chance while you're up there dicking around / stalemating with another guild over who is going to pull first, another dragon could spawn and now you're both DQed and another guild starts clearing to that. It's in everyone's best interest to clear towards a specific target as quickly as possible without any fuckery.