Pet Commands and Pet Pulling Not Correct

[BlkCamel]

Here is notes mentioning the changes to the call for help command that was made in 2005 about a future patch, it mentions these are long standing issues that were going to be patched out.

http://crucible.samanna.net/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3047

Another post in 2006 discussing this tactic proving it was viable prior to this time line

http://samanna.net/3u/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2072&p=32430

[BlkCamel]

just realized this is in server chat should be moved to bugs so an actual report/response can be made, I request mod to move or OP to re-post in bugs.

[Ikonoclastia]

Originally Posted by BlkCamel [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

just realized this is in server chat should be moved to bugs so an actual report/response can be made, I request mod to move or OP to re-post in bugs.

Yeah I put it in here to get some feedback prior to posting in bugs. See what people thought or whether the had other evidence which showed it to be incorrect.

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by BlkCamel [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I did this on live pre-velious. Used green pet to pull Di'zok for my Jade Prod. A green pet to the mob was all that was required. Mob would not call assist when fighting a pet so low level it conned green to him. It was taken out eventually as mentioned but was always an option in Kunark and into Velious. It was not super effective though because pet was so low level it would die fast and if it died within range of enemies the new agro on the pet owner would pull the adds. You had to buff pet with everything you had just to make sure he lived through the pull.

Ah, thanks for correcting my half-remembered details [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yea, should try getting this in to a bug thread, I doubt if this will be a priority update though.

[Deltaloko]

Green pet pulling lasted into at least PoP, and I think into OoW...

[pasi]

Green pet pulling was not a thing while pets alone could proximity aggro NPCs. The rationale for this should be very obvious.

In addition, use of green pet pulling required feign death.

For those not savvy on the trick.

1) You FD'd with a lower level pet.
2) You /pet attacked.
3) You either spammed /pet back or /pet hold (pet discipline) then /pet back

NPCs will not assist the aggroed NPC provided both
A) the pet is a low enough level
B) the pet does not attacks the NPC.

Pet discipline allowed you to stand up immediately after the pet aggroed because it ensured the pet would not attack back. Players without this AA would have to remain FDd and spam /pet back.

The NPC only gets assistance on the pet's attacks. If the player is FDed while the pet attacks and the pet is low enough level, the NPC will not get social assistance.

In combination with bestow divine aura, this allowed for pulling single NPCs virtually anywhere without adds. It also gave a lot of PvE value to a blood orchid katana for SKs.

[iruinedyourday]

Originally Posted by Swish [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Duck cancelling spells needs taking out... nobody shouting about that though are they?

I played this game since day one and always remember duck casting, I hear people say they think it wasnt classic, wich one us is cray?!

Ill swear up and down it was in. I mean I quit right after vel came out, and I Know it existed at some point, so that means it couldn't possibly be anything but classic, right? So why does anyone say its not classic?

[Ikonoclastia]

Originally Posted by iruinedyourday [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I played this game since day one and always remember duck casting, I hear people say they think it wasnt classic, wich one us is cray?!

Ill swear up and down it was in. I mean I quit right after vel came out, and I Know it existed at some point, so that means it couldn't possibly be anything but classic, right? So why does anyone say its not classic?

I'm certain it was in classic too however 14 years is a long time so basically you have to find some evidence it was.

In the first post I linked the EQ manual which clearly shows in 1999 pets could only be commanded to a certain range. It didn't specify how far though. Just that pet command range was doubled on release. But then there were posts from mid 2001 (prior to Luclin) which has multiple people saying it was about /say range.

That's pretty good evidence of the classic mechanic. Though at some point which I'm not sure of there was a global /pet attack command which was removed at some further point.

So basically if you could duck and cancel spells in Velious that of course like you said doesn't mean you could do it in Kunark or classic but if no evidence exists to show otherwise I don't think it's correct to say it wasn't classic IMO.

[BlkCamel]

Originally Posted by pasi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Green pet pulling was not a thing while pets alone could proximity aggro NPCs. The rationale for this should be very obvious.

In addition, use of green pet pulling required feign death.

For those not savvy on the trick.

1) You FD'd with a lower level pet.
2) You /pet attacked.
3) You either spammed /pet back or /pet hold (pet discipline) then /pet back

NPCs will not assist the aggroed NPC provided both
A) the pet is a low enough level
B) the pet does not attacks the NPC.

Pet discipline allowed you to stand up immediately after the pet aggroed because it ensured the pet would not attack back. Players without this AA would have to remain FDd and spam /pet back.

The NPC only gets assistance on the pet's attacks. If the player is FDed while the pet attacks and the pet is low enough level, the NPC will not get social assistance.

In combination with bestow divine aura, this allowed for pulling single NPCs virtually anywhere without adds. It also gave a lot of PvE value to a blood orchid katana for SKs.

You did not have to have feign death, read the links provided. They discuss shaman doing this and although some suggest fd many do without, including myself. The big trick was positioning pet on guard a distance back then standing back as far as you can tot ell pet to attack and have him do it. Then after pet attack you run backwards this should put you out or range of agro and pull successfully, The mechanic is discussed in detail about NPC to NPC interaction and the GREEN assist mechanic not working properly with pets, whether intentional or not it is classic.

*** pet pull back was not mentioned previously but yes the proximity would agro mob and that would cause pet to not call for help when assisting on green pet, idea was so fippy wouldn't be ganked by 50 mobs but just 1. I didn't mention it because its a requisite to the pull, ie that's the point, gotta call pet back and he has to live so you don't get agro from adds

[BlkCamel]

Originally Posted by Ikonoclastia [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm certain it was in classic too however 14 years is a long time so basically you have to find some evidence it was.

In the first post I linked the EQ manual which clearly shows in 1999 pets could only be commanded to a certain range. It didn't specify how far though. Just that pet command range was doubled on release. But then there were posts from mid 2001 (prior to Luclin) which has multiple people saying it was about /say range.

That's pretty good evidence of the classic mechanic. Though at some point which I'm not sure of there was a global /pet attack command which was removed at some further point.

So basically if you could duck and cancel spells in Velious that of course like you said doesn't mean you could do it in Kunark or classic but if no evidence exists to show otherwise I don't think it's correct to say it wasn't classic IMO.

the posts and links i provided give proof that pet attack command was based on range as well. Same mechanics you are discussing are issues present in discussions on Samanna the shamans crucible. They have extensive archives and probably could help alot of people looking for classic data.