BDA to Phinigel

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Originally Posted by Juryiel [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And to your point about DKP being about cheating - I'm not sure if you've ever ran a DKP system yourself, but I have, and let me tell you it is super annoying especially at the time on live when we had to remember to take the right logs in the right way during hectic new encounters, copy paste them in the system correctly, fix any errors, deal with adjusting stuff that has been bought, sit around taking bids (our system wasn't DKP it was a custom bidding system). It was just a massive headache and basically any time it was my turn to run it for a raid that was easily 50% of what I did during that raid.

Maybe I was lucky. I only ran during live with guilds with fellow engineers from NASA. Some of those dudes still used slide rules, but hey, they managed to keep the count correct.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Just as a side note, for a brief period I ran with a Russian guild, back before the wall fell. They used a loot council. Just saying.

[Juryiel]

Originally Posted by Sadre Spinegnawer [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Maybe I was lucky. I only ran during live with guilds with fellow engineers from NASA. Some of those dudes still used slide rules, but hey, they managed to keep the count correct.

Haha did you ask them how much time per raid they were spending to make sure that was the case though? [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Things did progressively get better as the web and dealing with databases improved, but I think the point that DKP is too annoying to be motivated just cheating purposes stands. One can probably come up with far easier methods if he were so inclined.

[bigbard1]

Originally Posted by jcr4990 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I read most posts that people bitch about being tldr. Some kids on the internet see 2 paragraphs and get triggered.

HOWEVER this time u have a point. I didn't read this one.

It was really bad on mobile.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Originally Posted by Juryiel [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Haha did you ask them how much time per raid they were spending to make sure that was the case though? [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Things did progressively get better as the web and dealing with databases improved, but I think the point that DKP is too annoying to be motivated just cheating purposes stands. One can probably come up with far easier methods if he were so inclined.

Those guys lived for that stuff. At that point, there was a reference guild whose site was used for base loot values for items (Triton?) to determine starting bids. One officer then managed as bidding was done in /gu for funz and getting drunk raiders to dump points, and then a screenie was just taken and was compiled next day. Another
guildie watched the guild website to announce who had points.

It was not a hassle. And, /gu open bidding wars were fun as hell.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

I still do not understand what you mean by "cheating purposes" btw.

Cheating or exploitation of the system disappears if you do quarterly adjustments, point decays, and point freezes for non-attendance.

[Juryiel]

Originally Posted by Sadre Spinegnawer [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I still do not understand what you mean by "cheating purposes" btw.

Cheating or exploitation of the system disappears if you do quarterly adjustments, point decays, and point freezes for non-attendance.

Ravager just made a point that the whole reason DKP is used is to basically exploit low attendance players or something along those lines. My point was that DKP is way more complex system than is needed to do that, if that's your main goal [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Haha glad your guildies loved running the system though, it's always good when people trying to keep 40-80 people organized in some way have an easy time.

[Red_Messiah]

Originally Posted by Juryiel [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ravager just made a point that the whole reason DKP is used is to basically exploit low attendance players or something along those lines. My point was that DKP is way more complex system than is needed to do that, if that's your main goal [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Haha glad your guildies loved running the system though, it's always good when people trying to keep 40-80 people organized in some way have an easy time.

Every guild has a fairly tight core of old players who have good raid attendance. Whatever system other than randoming, loot will always gravitate towards them (and their alts)...particularly if its a "guild first" when an item drops.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

sigh. you guys are proving my point.

do you even know what I mean by quarterly adjustment or point freezing?

My entire point is, the solution is ez, and one should never jopin a guild that does not utilize these solutions.

So I ask again, do you even know what I mean by quarterly adjustments and the other terms? Otherwise, you are just showing you do know understand how fair dkp systems work.

[Red_Messiah]

doesn't matter, the existing systems people have been using exist so they're not going to switch