Project 1999

Go Back   Project 1999 > Class Discussions > Priests

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 07-29-2022, 11:49 AM
DeathsSilkyMist DeathsSilkyMist is offline
Planar Protector

DeathsSilkyMist's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 6,132
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArbiterBlixen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Just checked the logs on one of my computers and got the following resist rates for Pox and Bane:

Pox: 27.34%
Bane: 23.07%

My impression is that common mobs for the most part have equal Disease and Poison resists. I would guess the rate is actually the same over a larger sample. This laptop had about 250 casts of each.

I'm interested to hear what your logs show. I haven't checked my other computers' logs yet.
I don't have any hard data, I've generally just seen more resists on Bane, even when the mob is Malo'ed. But let us take that off the table and assume you are right. It is very possible I am just getting bad luck with Bane, and I don't have the data to prove it either way.

Pox is still the superior spell over Bane. Both cost the same amount of mana, but Pox does more damage, and takes longer to clear. This means you have more time between Pox casts to regain your mana for the next round of DoTs, debuffs, etc.

Don't get me wrong, Bane still has it's uses. I used it a lot when soloing 4 way in Kael, because those mobs have a lot of innate HP regen. But when fighting WW Dragons, I never use it because it just wastes a lot more mana. It's much safer to kill the Dragon a bit slower, and save your mana for whatever may happen during the fight.

But when you have to pick between the two due to money concerns, Pox is the superior spell every time, and not a lot of fights (at least in my experience) require you to use both. Normally one is enough, plus your other DPS from things like JBB, Epic, and Pet.

That is why I usually put Bane at the bottom of the list of expensive spells. It is the least used of my expensive spells.
__________________
Last edited by DeathsSilkyMist; 07-29-2022 at 11:55 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 07-29-2022, 03:18 PM
Vivitron Vivitron is offline
Sarnak


Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 365
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
takes longer to clear
This seems like a pure negative. For example if it were a nuke you could just casts it every 1.8 minutes like you do now to the same effect, but you would have the option to pump on the gas if needed.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07-29-2022, 03:50 PM
DeathsSilkyMist DeathsSilkyMist is offline
Planar Protector

DeathsSilkyMist's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 6,132
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivitron [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
This seems like a pure negative. For example if it were a nuke you could just casts it every 1.8 minutes like you do now to the same effect, but you would have the option to pump on the gas if needed.
I agree it seems a bit counter-intuitive, but the reality is Shaman spells are very expensive, and Shamans only have 4 flexible spell slots typically. Normally you have Canni 4, Torpor, Turgurs Insects, and Malo on bar at all times. It can be tough to fit even two DoTs. Even with Torpor, you can run out of mana. Take a look at this video, where I am fighting Bravatar (a WW Dragon).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igpbLuNe0ls

By the end of the fight, I am around 40% life and 10% Mana. If I had used Bane instead of Pox, I would be burning through my mana much faster, due to it's shorter duration. WW Dragons have high innate regen, so whenever your buffs wear off you are losing time because their regen starts healing them again.

Now, could I try to power through the fight with Bane to save a few minutes? Yes, but it is riskier. In my experience saving a minute or two via increased DPS is not worth the increased risk of having to start the fight over, which takes much longer due to healing, repositioning, repulling, etc.

Being a Torpor Shaman involves understanding how quickly you can use HP/Mana during a fight safely, and from my experience Pox gives you a more stable experience, even if it is a bit slower.

Having a longer period between re-casting DoTs means you have more time to Cannibalize/Torpor. Shamans also cast a LOT of spells, so reducing how often you cast can help in a fight too.
__________________
Last edited by DeathsSilkyMist; 07-29-2022 at 04:04 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 07-29-2022, 04:11 PM
loramin loramin is offline
Planar Protector

loramin's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 9,340
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivitron [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
This seems like a pure negative. For example if it were a nuke you could just casts it every 1.8 minutes like you do now to the same effect, but you would have the option to pump on the gas if needed.
What DeathsSilkyMist is failing to consider (as he often does) is that there exists a world outside his head, and not every fight is the 18-minute WW Dragon fight he imagines.

To your point, it's obviously more nuanced: sometimes you want to kill as quickly as possible, sometimes you want to get the most damage you can for your mana. For the longer fights, Pox is clearly superior (although even so, I still use Bane on long fights ... it's just that when I'm low on mana I stop).

But on the other hand, if you want to kill a mob quickly (say, before it agroes another mob), obviously Bane and nukes are superior. Some fights are even fast enough that Pox won't last the entire fight, which can make it even less efficient than Bane.
__________________

Loramin Frostseer, Oracle of the Tribunal <Anonymous> and Fan of the "Where To Go For XP/For Treasure?" Guides
Anyone can improve the wiki! If you are new to the Blue server, you can improve the wiki to earn a "welcome package" of up to 2k+ platinum! Message me for details.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 07-29-2022, 04:36 PM
DeathsSilkyMist DeathsSilkyMist is offline
Planar Protector

DeathsSilkyMist's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 6,132
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
What DeathsSilkyMist is failing to consider (as he often does) is that there exists a world outside his head, and not every fight is the 18-minute WW Dragon fight he imagines.

To your point, it's obviously more nuanced: sometimes you want to kill as quickly as possible, sometimes you want to get the most damage you can for your mana. For the longer fights, Pox is clearly superior (although even so, I still use Bane on long fights ... it's just that when I'm low on mana I stop).

But on the other hand, if you want to kill a mob quickly (say, before it agroes another mob), obviously Bane and nukes are superior. Some fights are even fast enough that Pox won't last the entire fight, which can make it even less efficient than Bane.
I didn't fail to consider fights outside of WW dragons[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] I simply have a video to show a quick example, which is more tangible than pure text. I see you have not posted any videos to back up your ideas. I even used Kael 4 way as a different example for when Bane is useful.

Bane is the lesser of the two end game DoT spells. Nobody said it is useless, it is simply the least useful of the expensive spells, which is why you shouldn't prioritize it if you are budgeting money.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 07-29-2022, 04:44 PM
Vivitron Vivitron is offline
Sarnak


Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 365
Default

It makes sense that you use pox -- the dpm advantage looks significant. All I'm saying is that if it did the damage faster it would be better. You could pace yourself with an 18 tic timer or by your mana and get the same outcome, but would have the option of doing more damage if the situation called for it.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 07-29-2022, 04:48 PM
DeathsSilkyMist DeathsSilkyMist is offline
Planar Protector

DeathsSilkyMist's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 6,132
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivitron [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
It makes sense that you use pox -- the dpm advantage looks significant. All I'm saying is that if it did the damage faster it would be better. You could pace yourself with an 18 tic timer or by your mana and get the same outcome, but would have the option of doing more damage if the situation called for it.
The problem is damage spikes. If you drain your mana too fast you may not be able to canni it back if a hard hitting monster gets some lucky double attacks. Your encounter ends if you are at 5% mana and 50% health generally, even if the mob is slowed. This is because you need to spend a good chunk of that health to pump your mana for Torpor, and the mob could get lucky on an attack between then and when Torpor starts healing you.

From experience I have found that going the faster but riskier route ends up just wasting more time. Every time you have to gate out you have lost any time advantage Bane gave you, and probably more.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 07-30-2022, 09:07 AM
Zuranthium Zuranthium is offline
Planar Protector

Zuranthium's Avatar

Join Date: May 2011
Location: Plane of Mischief
Posts: 1,385
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Take a look at this video, where I am fighting Bravatar (a WW Dragon).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igpbLuNe0ls

Now, could I try to power through the fight with Bane to save a few minutes? Yes, but it is riskier.
You are such a bad player. Torpor isn't being maintained, not even close to having full uptime. It needs to be kept up perma, as that is the entire engine to allow maximum Canni usage. You aren't even keeping the Disease and Epic DoT's maintained properly.

It's definitely better to be using Bane of Knife along with the Disease DoT in this fight, as killing the target faster creates more efficiency. Look at how you even waste mana on recasting Malo because of how slow you are to kill. Not to mention, killing faster is simply better anyway, more time to move onto the next thing.

Telling people to avoid getting Bane of Knife until last resort is awful advice. That spell helps a ton when trying to level/farm or for general grouping to generate DPS, where most of the time a Disease DoT is not going to be lasting anywhere close to full duration on a pull.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 07-30-2022, 12:11 PM
DeathsSilkyMist DeathsSilkyMist is offline
Planar Protector

DeathsSilkyMist's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 6,132
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
You are such a bad player. Torpor isn't being maintained, not even close to having full uptime. It needs to be kept up perma, as that is the entire engine to allow maximum Canni usage. You aren't even keeping the Disease and Epic DoT's maintained properly.

It's definitely better to be using Bane of Knife along with the Disease DoT in this fight, as killing the target faster creates more efficiency. Look at how you even waste mana on recasting Malo because of how slow you are to kill. Not to mention, killing faster is simply better anyway, more time to move onto the next thing.

Telling people to avoid getting Bane of Knife until last resort is awful advice. That spell helps a ton when trying to level/farm or for general grouping to generate DPS, where most of the time a Disease DoT is not going to be lasting anywhere close to full duration on a pull.
Post some videos of yourself, oh supposed grandmaster[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] You can theory craft in your perfect non practical situations all you want, but that doesn't mean you are right. Show us how you Torpor Shaman.

This also shows how bad you are at understanding DPS, or even Shamans. Most groups clear content so fast that using Bane or Pox would be a waste of mana lol. This is especially true before you get Torpor. The spell costs 425 mana, which is a lot even for a Torpor Shaman. But again, you think DPS is magic, so I am not suprised by this bad take.
__________________
Last edited by DeathsSilkyMist; 07-30-2022 at 12:26 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 07-30-2022, 03:22 PM
DeathsSilkyMist DeathsSilkyMist is offline
Planar Protector

DeathsSilkyMist's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 6,132
Default

Let me give you a more practical example using WW Dragons. On average it takes me 20 minutes to pull and kill one. I only have an hour to play. Lets say I increase my DPS to shave 3 minutes off of each kill.

Do you know how many WW Dragons I could kill in an hour at 17 minutes each? 3 lol. This is again something you don't really understand. Just increasing DPS doesn't guarantee that you pass the threshold for gaining additional kills per hour. It depends on a lot of factors.

When you aren't gaining any additional kills per hour, why increase your risk of death for the sake of DPS? It isn't gaining you anything other than increasing the chance of decreasing how many kills you get per hour.
__________________
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:56 AM.


Everquest is a registered trademark of Daybreak Game Company LLC.
Project 1999 is not associated or affiliated in any way with Daybreak Game Company LLC.
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.