combat stats, proc rates, and a lot of questions

[Videri]

Originally Posted by bobjonesp99 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

i understand the distinction between procs per minute and procs per swing and how the game normalizes delay such that your proc per minute is constant (either haste or slow).

what i am saying is that, your secondary weapon swings less frequently than your mainhand and as a result the procs per minute of the secondary weapon is less than that of your mainhand. log data for hours of fighting green cons on a 60 warrior with two different procing weapons shows the frequency of the secondary weapons proc was ~54% of the primary weapons proc. based on the formula for dual wield chance on a 60 warrior, it calculates as ~50% chance.

And now we are getting to the point where I do not have answers. I think it's close enough.

[Videri]

Wait a second

Originally Posted by bobjonesp99 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

i parsed a level 60 warrior with max skills, 58 percent haste, and was equipping a primary infestation (9/18) + secondary frostbringer (12/22).

across the 83 second fight i saw 1085 primary attempts compared to 585 secondary attempts; keep in mind total attempts includes dual wield chance, double attack chance, and triple attack chance.

83 seconds? That's waaaaaaay too small a sample size to be conclusive.

If you're going to try to get this far into the formulae etc, you're going to need far more than 83 seconds of data. Perhaps one of the resident statisticians can estimate an amount of parsing time necessary to get actually useful results, but I'd bet you need to parse for hours.

Secondly, all this stuff is governed by formulae hidden in the server and client. That doesn't mean we're going to get the same results every time. Even if you run the same experiment over and over, you'll get different numbers every time.

[bobjonesp99]

Originally Posted by Videri [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wait a second



83 seconds? That's waaaaaaay too small a sample size to be conclusive.

If you're going to try to get this far into the formulae etc, you're going to need far more than 83 seconds of data. Perhaps one of the resident statisticians can estimate an amount of parsing time necessary to get actually useful results, but I'd bet you need to parse for hours.

Secondly, all this stuff is governed by formulae hidden in the server and client. That doesn't mean we're going to get the same results every time. Even if you run the same experiment over and over, you'll get different numbers every time.

this should have read "across the 83 second fight i saw 116 primary attempts compared to 67 secondary attempts" (0.58). in this example is was referring to a single fight. the example fight was consistent with the much larger data that i quoted as 1085 primary attempts and 585 secondary attempts (0.54).

[Videri]

Even 1000 swings isn't enough of a sample size. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There's plenty of room for variation that could explain the difference between 0.50 and 0.54.

[Snaggles]

It's not accurate enough for a thesis paper but close enough for a general perspective that the offhand does about half the work, maybe even less since no damage bonus. Maybe without triple attack and on a longer parse the MH it's a bit closer to that 60/70% range.

As for the rest (procs linked to swing), it's a matter of if you are mainly curious about the science or hoping it will bring a functional difference to how someone would gear out a warrior. I don't think anything will change. The best dps and proc will always go in the MH and the 2nd best in the offhand at least if proc aggro is capped. The only time I saw people deliberating over this was with the WESS and Infestation; whether to lose a poison counter worth of aggro for less white damage aggro.

[ScottBerta]

So being slowed doesn’t actually increase chance of proc but it doesn’t lesson the chance as well? I was under the impression that slowing yourself before you use OT hammer would get it to proc faster.. which made little sense to me.

[kaev]

Proc chance is time-based, roughly 1/minute mainhand with 100dex. So when you are slowed the chance to proc per swing becomes higher to keep the chance per minute the same. So if you're a melee with high 2hb skill trying to hammer off some wimpy cloth caster take off your haste item and if poss get a slow so you don't beat the poor clothie all to hell waiting on your proc.

[mattydef]

I’ve been playing this game for a long time and one thing I can say with certainty is that the Paladin / SK epic weapons proc far more than 2 ppm.

[jolanar]

Originally Posted by ScottBerta [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So being slowed doesn’t actually increase chance of proc but it doesn’t lesson the chance as well? I was under the impression that slowing yourself before you use OT hammer would get it to proc faster.. which made little sense to me.

Slowing to make OT hammer proc is pretty pointless. It's still 1 ppm. You swing less but proc more. You might get more procs on the first swing, but over time the proc rate will still even out.

Slowing to increase proc rate of weapons when you can only get a few swings off between casts (basically only applies to shamans) does make some sense in specific situations.

[booleansphinx]

Originally Posted by bobjonesp99 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

dual wield:
i have read the formula for dual wield is [dual wield skill + level] / [max skill]. i have read the max skill could be anywhere from 400 to 600 depending on class and that is is unclear what is used in P99.

EQEMU is likely not 100% true to P99s formulas, but I'd bet it's pretty close.
In the EQEMU,
Double attack is (Skill + Level) / 500
Dual Wield is (Skill + Level) / 375
Parry and Dodge is (Skill + 100) / 4500
Riposte is (Skill + 100) / 5000

I never looked into procing, it gets pretty hairy in the code.
https://github.com/EQEmu/Server/blob...one/attack.cpp

The wiki has a lot of mention about the denominator ("max skill") changing based on class, but I think that's unlikely. The different skill caps given to classes only really make sense if the "max skill" is the same.

another question is, does the dual wield attack act as a 'proc' on the primary attack? i.e. is it that the dual wield is attacking only when a successful dual wield is rolled on the primary (and then separately adjusting the number of attacks to account for the damage/delay of the secondary)? or does the dual wield act as a delay modifier (i.e. like haste in reverse) reducing the secondary delay by dividing by the dual wield modifier?

Your offhand attacks the same was as your main hand, except before the attack goes through it makes a skill check. If it fails, the offhand goes on cooldown based on weapon delay and no attack occurs. Similar to what happens if you are out of range with your auto-attack on.