Hill Giants FTE?

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Polycaster [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So they don't want to create a system of precise rules, but Galach just created such a precise rule out of thin air, which may or may not apply at any given time, which only forum-dwellers will know about since its extremely unintuitive, and you think this is an example of keeping things simple? This is neither simple nor predictable, nor fair. If someone is camping a spawn spot, and attacks an HG wandering by unengaged, some guy can immediately run in and grab the spawn pt he was sitting on? What if he attacks a basilisk or a lizard man?

This is the problem with trying to control things: the more rules you make, the more star systems slip through your fingers.

No, Galach didn't create anything (except a forum post).

I, a player, added his "ruling" quote to the wiki, as I do every time I see one. But again, that does not create some kind of rules bible: the staff is under no obligation to follow the camp rules page or any other GM's (or even their own) previous rulings. All of that only exists to give players a sense of how future GMs are likely rule, not to promise them anything.

But again, the staff doesn't do any of this to confuse people, and even in this thread Galach took pains to say "hey I don't know the deal with Pyzjn, so all I'll say is we'll be consistent with other stuff". So similarly here, if this is confusing, they'll likely clear it up at some point. In fact, as you can see on the Rulings page, that's happened before: a GM gave an incorrect ruling in the forum, and later it got cleared up. They're human after all.

Until then, anyone trying to draw some general server rule from Galach commenting on one specific case doesn't seem to understand how the staff handles rules at all. What I think people should take from it is ... IF you are somewhere like Seafuries/Hill Giants, which normally is a mess of mobs running around ... and IF, for whatever reason (eg. it's so busy on Seafury island there are more players than spawn points) you decide to camp a single point, and then IF on top of that you go kill some more mobs while waiting for your point, and IF during that time someone doesn't realize that point is yours, so you get into a dispute, and IF a GM gets involved ...

... THEN, MAYBE, you might have to stick to your one Hill Giant/Seafury/whatever spawn and not go after any others.

[galach]

This is how it has always worked with these hill giant & seafury spawns since 2010 when I was a player.

I don't think many people remember how packed these camps were before Velious.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by galach [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is how it has always worked with these hill giant & seafury spawns since 2010 when I was a player.

I don't think many people remember how packed these camps were before Velious.

Heh, well Seafuries are certainly quite a contrast compared to back in the day [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But what I think this tempest in a teacup boils down to is that most camp disputes are on clear named spawn points, so those rules have become well known. When you apply the general rules for them to an area where everyone else is just FTE-ing, and have one person camp a point, it becomes messy (a perfect example of the larger point that it's impossible to make rules cover everything without creating a "bible").

What I read your quote as was basically "people trying to claim a spawn point, while also running around grabbing more FTE, in an area where everyone else is FTEing is ... a mess, so if you're going to do that, it has to be clear that you're doing one point, and that means only doing one point" ... but I think it's being taken as some new restriction on any outdoor camp.

I will admit that particular wrinkle about sticking to the mob you're camping was news to me too ... but that's not to say I'm disagreeing with you at all, it's just I've never tried camping an HG point, or heard of anyone doing so and getting into a dispute. But just because we players haven't heard of a case, it doesn't mean you GMs haven't, and that you're making a ruling out of nowhere.

[cd288]

Outdoor mobs generally FTE, but you can lay claim to a single static spawn point (or come to some other arrangement with the other players in the area as to who gets how many spawns).

For outdoor mobs that are triggered by PHs and could spawn at multiple different points in the zone, you can't claim the mob just because you're killing the PHs (unless you have a group of people and everyone in your group is holding down one of the possible spawn points of the mob).

[Kohedron]

You just ran into the very typical rule-lawyer on P99.

[Teppler]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Heh, well Seafuries are certainly quite a contrast compared to back in the day [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But what I think this tempest in a teacup boils down to is that most camp disputes are on clear named spawn points, so those rules have become well known. When you apply the general rules for them to an area where everyone else is just FTE-ing, and have one person camp a point, it becomes messy (a perfect example of the larger point that it's impossible to make rules cover everything without creating a "bible").

What I read your quote as was basically "people trying to claim a spawn point, while also running around grabbing more FTE, in an area where everyone else is FTEing is ... a mess, so if you're going to do that, it has to be clear that you're doing one point, and that means only doing one point" ... but I think it's being taken as some new restriction on any outdoor camp.

I will admit that particular wrinkle about sticking to the mob you're camping was news to me too ... but that's not to say I'm disagreeing with you at all, it's just I've never tried camping an HG point, or heard of anyone doing so and getting into a dispute. But just because we players haven't heard of a case, it doesn't mean you GMs haven't, and that you're making a ruling out of nowhere.

Here's the thing. There's static HG points where they pop but most of them aren't. There are 1 or 2 that are static spawns. I don't believe any Seafuries are static spawns. I'm not sure if you are missing that.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Teppler [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Here's the thing. There's static HG points where they pop but most of them aren't. There are 1 or 2 that are static spawns. I don't believe any Seafuries are static spawns. I'm not sure if you are missing that.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "I don't believe any Seafuries are static spawns". There are definitely places where Seafuries spawn, and those places have a fixed timer, don't move around, and don't have non-Seafury PHs, so ... to me they seem static?

Either way though, my point was ... when you're camping Hadden (or most mobs), it's VERY clear. But when you're on a hill with a bunch of giants, it's not, because most people are running around grabbing FTEs. And it's more confusing when you're also grabbing FTEs, but telling other people they can't FTE one particular point at the same time.

So all I was saying is, I don't think Galach is making some blanket statement for every outdoor spawn point ... my guess was he only meant ones (like HG/Seafuries) where a person picking one point to camp could get confusing (and problematic for camp disputes) IF they're also racing around grabbing more mobs ... ergo, they can't also race around grabbing mobs.

[Teppler]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "I don't believe any Seafuries are static spawns". There are definitely places where Seafuries spawn, and those places have a fixed timer, don't move around, and don't have non-Seafury PHs, so ... to me they seem static?

Either way though, my point was ... when you're camping Hadden (or most mobs), it's VERY clear. But when you're on a hill with a bunch of giants, it's not, because most people are running around grabbing FTEs. And it's more confusing when you're also grabbing FTEs, but telling other people they can't FTE one particular point at the same time.

So all I was saying is, I don't think Galach is making some blanket statement for every outdoor spawn point ... my guess was he only meant ones (like HG/Seafuries) where a person picking one point to camp could get confusing (and problematic for camp disputes) IF they're also racing around grabbing more mobs ... ergo, they can't also race around grabbing mobs.

Well I don't know then. I always thought seafuries spawned in a general range and not specific spots and that those were examples of the outdoor mobs that aren't campable.

[Doktoor]

So the way it's working now, post-merge, is that people are sitting on top of individual HG spawn points. Before the merge, most people were pulling off to the side and just doing FTE because the amount of spawns was > the people camping them except occasionally during peak hours.

Now, people are literally medding right where the HGs spawn and killing one through FTE as the mob spawns where they're sitting.

And you have some people that can kill them quickly, like lvl 50 magies/sham, etc, that will sit until one spawn, then move and sit on another spawn.

The result is that it's made it impossible to grab any HG without sitting at one of the spawn locations.

[galach]

Originally Posted by Doktoor [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So the way it's working now, post-merge, is that people are sitting on top of individual HG spawn points. Before the merge, most people were pulling off to the side and just doing FTE because the amount of spawns was > the people camping them except occasionally during peak hours.

Now, people are literally medding right where the HGs spawn and killing one through FTE as the mob spawns where they're sitting.

And you have some people that can kill them quickly, like lvl 50 magies/sham, etc, that will sit until one spawn, then move and sit on another spawn.

The result is that it's made it impossible to grab any HG without sitting at one of the spawn locations.

It will just get crazier as more people hit max level and want to farm plat. It was almost impossible for myself to get more than 1 Hill Giant or Seafury's in a spawn cycle unless it was 2 am during the week on blue before Velious.