The player-moderated Ancient Cyclops list is a disaster.

[Impeaches]

Originally Posted by Convict [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

not taking either side here but, once you have gotten the AC gotten your ring, you are done at the camp, thats how camps work with LORE items, list or not. You dont get to continue holding the camp and killing PH's waitin for someone else to show up if there is someone already there to take it. Or at least thats how it should work. If you have made it down to already #40 on the list and havent found somebody by then just leave and let the guy sitting there waiting deal with it

As you correctly point out that's how you thing it should work, but unfortunately the materials provided and the agreement made when joining the list works slightly differently and the rules that are laid out state otherwise. I was neither disrupting the spawn or intending to remain at the spawn to continue farming a lore item. I was simply abiding an agreement I made when I accepted the list to look for the next person online once I had received an AC ring. Oddly enough AC camp is mentioned in the PNP. Until I turned the camp over to someone or begin disrupting the camp (say by corpsing rings or monopolizing the camp) it was my camp and would remain my camp as long as I FTE'd in a reasonable time and I was bound to make a good faith effort to follow the list. That holds to both the letter and the spirit of the elf law.

Impeaches Esq.

[Coridan]

Just as a quest design the JBoots quest is fucking dumb. It should have been something more like Staff of the Wheel, going to all the outdoor zones and finding items or something. The EQ2 JBoots quest is actually really good but probably not something you can implement in 99 and would be trivialized by bards anyway lol.

[adruidarkly]

Originally Posted by Samaritan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You do realize that many players will simply bind at the camp and corpse a ring, if it means they can get another, right?

The only thing better than selling 1 MQ is selling 4 MQs.

Yeah I think they do realize, what they should have said is in a camp with a waiting list, once you get your item(LORE or not) you are done with that camp and must pass it to the next one waiting. That's the rule. Reference: https://wiki.project1999.com/Camp_Rules#Faydwer

I hold my initial stance: This seems to me that a cross section of two people who didn't understand the rules, and made extra efforts to be kind to the entirety of a 100 person list in vain, caused a kerfuffle that should not have happened. The list is for determining who gets the camp in the case when multiple people are there waiting for the camp at the time the next PH spawns as a hard deadline, or show up in a reasonable amount of time after the holder got their item otherwise. Ultimately there is no excuse for a player missing their slot. As was lamented multiple times in this thread, you can see your position at any moment on any device with an internet connection.

I think I have the right of it, please correct me where I am wrong:

Camp holder has zero responsibility in contacting the entire list in order. Your responsibilities as camp holder are holding the camp, adding people the list. In the event you get your item, its your job to pass it to whoever is present to take the camp over when the next PH spawns as a hard deadline. The next person up can show up anytime before the next PH, or a reasonable amount of time in the event the spawn has long gaps.

No matter how much you like the people on the list between you and the person there to take it over, those people weren't there and its not your fault. If you remain there killing the spawn after you got your item, they you are in the wrong for doing so. Once that PH spawns, the list is only relevant in deciding who among those that are present take it over. A player waiting may assert themselves as the new camp holder at that point, which was wrongly denied here.

The responsibility to take over the camp truly falls to those waiting to benefit from it. If you're next up in presence, then it's in your best interests to remain present even if you are #110. You may just get the camp before 109 people ahead of you. Yes, this wipes the list. Sucks to be among the 109, one of them should have been there. If you are afraid of backlash then communicate your intention well, keep logs, run OBS -- GM's will have your back, especially with that video. If people show up and KS, make a petition. If there are people present in OOT ahead of you in the list, then you can probably go do other things while waiting. In lieu of socking the spawn while others camp, keep an eye and ear on the situation still via /who and /tell.

Another thing to mention -- if someone has two characters that hold two consecutive positions, they can technically swap characters before the next PH. If someone has their guildie's login, they can do that too. It's kind of a dick move, but you can't really police that as a player, so why waste energy on it?

Hope this is helpful to some, truly.

[Widan]

Originally Posted by Samaritan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You do realize that many players will simply bind at the camp and corpse a ring, if it means they can get another, right?

The only thing better than selling 1 MQ is selling 4 MQs.

If you are solo camping, once you attain the item you were waiting for (an AC ring, for example)
you are done camping that mob.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...19&postcount=9

Did the rules change since 2014?

[beh]

Originally Posted by Impeaches [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Let's go ahead and solve this little part of the equation, okay Beh or Coronita (Fires of Heaven). I (My in-game name matches my name here now) was the person who held the list over to find the next person online. I started my AC camp off with a tell from you whining about missing your turn. Literally before I even summoned a pet you were sending me tells whining. As soon as I had a second I started /w all down the list. Then the third spawns AC popped and i had made it to like #20 on the list. One PH popped I killed it. I play on a laptop and either have to window back and forth or use my phone to get names, so it can be a little slow. I had little time to send tells to folks on the list to find who was online for the #2 spot with only 2 PH spawning before I got an AC. I continued down the list and found one person in BB headed to the AC camp and informed that person I was continuing down the list in case someone bound there was online. PH #1 post AC popped and I killed it. You stated you were taking the camp on next PH. I told you I had the camp and was not relinquishing it to you and wiping a list because I couldn't type fast enough to find who was online. I found another person online around #40something on the list, a guildmate, who declined because they were not bound there. PH #2 post AC spawned and I killed it. You stated again you were taking the camp I told you it was my camp and you were not taking it, I was going to honor the list as it stood and continue to see if anyone was online and bound at the camp. At that point the person in the #8 or #10 spot appeared in camp. I forgot this person's name, it started with a "B" and don't want to drag anyone into your shit show here. I turned the camp and list over to that person, who was not number #40, not someone I know, and not part of some grand conspiracy to keep you from achieving greatness in a 20 year old game.

The other person you keep alluding as my co-conspirator is someone I solely know from the AC camp. The person who I turned the spawn over to is someone I have never interacted with in game before. There's nothing rotten in Denmark or this situation so go ahead and put the tin foil hat away for another day.

As for issues with the current system, the inability to ban you and people like you and Urbrutha from the list is the only issue with the list. I could see saying you slots #1 and #2 had to be in camp, or even 1-3.

Now, back to a 20 year old game thankfully kept alive by some folks who don't get enough credit.

ImPeaches... go fuck yourself Coronita...

Wow! Sounds like you took this more personally than I even did, coming on here like a hero looking to defend your own honor. Good for you, champ.

Except, you were the one who decided to stick around even after you got your ring, which - if you read this thread at all - is the one thing that mostly everyone can agree upon was wrong. You should have gotten the fuck out, instead of playing the white knight for a random stranger (according to you) who wasn't anywhere near OOT at the time.

Also, your story about me "whining" and telling you I was ready to wipe the list is flat out bullshit. I told you what happened (I was #2 and fell asleep when my turn came up), and since nobody else was around after you were done, I offered to NOT WIPE THE LIST, which would have permitted you to leave as you were SUPPOSED TO, without the weight of fucking 100+ people over on your conscience. If you read this thread AT ALL, you would've seen that I explained that at least five times. Actually, if your head wasn't so thick, you would've understood that when I explained it to you AT THE TIME OF THE INCIDENT IN QUESTION, instead of ignoring me and later calling it "whining" because you couldn't be bothered to use common sense.

But nope, you, the valiant white knight of the Kingdom AC list, decided to stay and cause this problem. Hope you're happy!

[beh]

Originally Posted by Impeaches

As soon as I had a second I started /w all down the list. Then the third spawns AC popped and i had made it to like #20 on the list. One PH popped I killed it. I play on a laptop and either have to window back and forth or use my phone to get names, so it can be a little slow. I had little time to send tells to folks on the list to find who was online for the #2 spot with only 2 PH spawning before I got an AC.

You may have inadvertently helped me prove my point here.

THIS IS THE PROBLEM WITH A LIST LIKE THIS.

It's NOT your responsibility to sit around and send 45 tells after you're done with the camp. If they're on the list and can't be bothered to check in, TOO BAD. You don't have to do that work for them.. but you decided to, and in turn had more empathy and consideration for a nameless faceless person who wasn't sitting right in front of you as I was, asking to alleviate your responsibilities by holding the list for you so you could leave... and this is the result.

And you wonder why there's suspicion?

[Phaezed-Reality]

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[Convict]

Originally Posted by Samaritan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You do realize that many players will simply bind at the camp and corpse a ring, if it means they can get another, right?

The only thing better than selling 1 MQ is selling 4 MQs.

um yes i do realize that and theres a very clearly stated rule disallowing that. I'm sure it happens when nobody is around but nobody is going to do that when there is someone sitting there waiting for the camp

[beh]

Here's a couple of snippets I took from the evening in question. I wish I had taken a snap of the conversation directly with Impeaches (I like your name, btw, fwiw), but if I recall it was not much different than the one I had with Chalara, who was right before you. Sure, maybe "this list shit sucks" can be labelled "whining", but I guess we can leave it to public opinion to decide if it was that egregious or disruptive.

The other screenshot is from a nice gentleman in Kingdom, whom I reached out to regarding his opinion on the situation in real time, since Kingdom's website runs this list. Have a look at what he had to say.

BTW, Impeaches, I just re-read your post and saw that you told me to go fuck myself. You know, my gripe was never with you personally. My problem is the list itself, and my opinion from the start was that you should not have been burdened with sending dozens of tells to random strangers when you should have been on your way to go get your jboots (or sell your MQ?). That is why I offered to let you leave and maintain the list in your absence until I got my ring, since nobody else was there.

Yup. I should have just taken it... but I chose to go fuck myself. Lesson learned: nice guys finish last.

[beh]

Hey, quick update from the comfort of my living room couch!!!

It's been approximately EIGHTY (80) HOURS and I've moved up from #100 to #49. Three days down, hopefully only 3 more to go!!!!!!

Yeah!!! This is the classic experience I long for!