#31
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I only noticed a handful of screenshots that you posted, were there more elsewhere? I don't think that is a relevant sample size to base the fix off of.
I'll continue to look into this, but there are just too many cases of values not being in the 'absolute value' order. http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/npc.html?id=6472 http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/npc.html?id=6092 http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/npc.html?id=5866 http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/npc.html?id=8539 http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/npc.html?id=5398 http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/npc.html?id=28381 http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/npc.html?id=6681 http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/npc.html?id=32799 http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/npc.html?id=5384 http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/npc.html?id=5390 These prove the 'sub-sort alphabetically if a tie occurs' is not correct either: http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/npc.html?id=5385 http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/npc.html?id=5383 I am doubtful on Velious being a special case, but I will try and confirm that later by looking through Kunark / Classic content. Granted I'll be using the 'live values' shown on ZAM as a guide, but if any exceptions to the rules are verified by classic screenshots, that should show that absolute value sorting is not reliable. I'm feeling a bit more confident in sorting by 'Faction ID', but I wasn't verifying that above with each link. Part of me wonders if there was more beyond listing 'primary faction first', they certainly seem to list factions they are allied with 2nd most often (such as Coldain being primary, then Dain showing 2nd hit. Same if Kromrif is primary, Kromzek would often be next). Maybe it lists all factions the mobs will assist then other factions? Not sure if mobs assisting multiple factions is classic or not. Will continue to look into this, I welcome any feedback or noted exceptions that break any proposed theory.
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Wedar - Level 60 Grandmaster <Azure Guard>
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Last edited by Rygar; 03-16-2018 at 02:14 PM..
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#32
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Found some old world hits that come in funky ways...
Investigator Badge has some funky hits in no discernible sort order: http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/q...tml?quest=1271 Quote:
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http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/quest.html?quest=557 Quote:
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/quest.html?quest=362 Quote:
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http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/npc.html?id=2983 Quote:
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http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/npc.html?id=2107 Quote:
Don't get me wrong, there are indeed cases where sorting by faction size are happening, but it is by no means universal, so I'm just posting things that show otherwise. So I don't think the absolute value sort order should be implemented, it would only serve to give hints about faction values. I'll try and map out the order everything appears and see if there is any kind of connection. Will probably take a long time.
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Wedar - Level 60 Grandmaster <Azure Guard>
Check out my Zone Guide to The Hole The Hole wiki now fully updated and accurate: Hole Wiki Page | ||||||||||||
#33
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Have been having some relevant success on establishing some kind of chronological order in the database. However, there are a handful of exceptions that cropped up which tell me that isn't the sole method, perhaps factions were stored in different tables that could be joined or queried in different orders and affect the sort.
Thus far it seems like the Primary Faction (first faction hit shown) determines the sort order. For instance, I may see CircleofUnseenHands hit above AntoniousBayle for one primary faction, but on a different primary faction the display order is reversed. Have seen a wide range of values on those faction hits and feel it is reasonable to conclude the value of the hit has nothing to do with the sort order. I'm trying to see if the text value of the faction can convert to a number and find some correlation, but I'm starting to go a bit too Beautiful Mind on this. If I had some insight into how the faction tables and faction hits are setup then maybe I can make more sense of it. For now, I'm just going to try and log the display order for each primary faction in Classic-Velious. If a dev wants to throw some 'fill in the blanks' code for how you want each primary faction to display I can post that when complete, and hopefully can alleviate some burden on implementing (a lot of faction to dig through, probably a 2-3 month project when all is said and done).
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Wedar - Level 60 Grandmaster <Azure Guard>
Check out my Zone Guide to The Hole The Hole wiki now fully updated and accurate: Hole Wiki Page | ||
#34
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Feel like this is a client limitation? Don't get the sense that devs would leave it untouched without a serious roadblock.
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#35
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I can dig up more screenshots from 2001-2 if it is required, but I don't see a reason for an orgy of evidence.
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Amax MNK / Amalgamax ROG / maximum Begging (227) EQ Map Archive (1,000+ images) P99 Wiki • EQ Patch Chronology | |||
#36
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If you found the same primary faction hit sorted in different orders I would begin to consider it again, but every single quest I've located has the order the same regardless of values. So same faction hits, but some may be sorted as 5, -1, 2, 1, 2 and a different quest is sorted the same but shows hits as 10, 3, 1, 1, 1. I am indeed trying to keep it classic, if your method proved true then I would say go on and feed the Faction Lords/farmers.
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Wedar - Level 60 Grandmaster <Azure Guard>
Check out my Zone Guide to The Hole The Hole wiki now fully updated and accurate: Hole Wiki Page | |||
#37
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I've spent a bit of time looking into this also.
If the numerical sort hypothesis true, then Primordial Malice would always appear first, not last, as it always does. Also, you give the example of a MayongMistmoore hit, but prior to Kunark, the AgentsofMistmoore hit was replaced with QueenCristanosThex -- in the exact same position, with everything else unchanged. Proof: http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2lsuf9&s=6#.WrBMPujwY2z http://www.silverblades-suitcase.com/eq/mm_aoe.jpg The hits clearly don't come in alphabetical order either, so it makes sense that one might argue for a "hidden ID#" hypothesis. But then this would be defeated by the reverse orders of StormGuard and EmeraldWarriors in the CrushboneOrc table versus the InhabitantsOfFirionaVie table. Another counterexample would be the reverse order of the Corrupt/Regular Qeynos guards in the SteelWarriors table versus the CircleOfUnseenHands table. It seems much more likely that these tables are just individualized according to a list that belongs to the parent faction, and that the lists were populated by the developers manually. Almost all factions list as their second entry the faction most strongly aligned or most diametrically opposed: e.g. KaranaBandits lists KaranaResidents second, KazonStormhammer lists StormGuard second, CorruptQeynosGuards lists GuardsOfQeynos second, etc. I would, however, be interested in any evidence that can support a different theory that has not been debunked by the above evidence. | ||
#38
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Wedar - Level 60 Grandmaster <Azure Guard>
Check out my Zone Guide to The Hole The Hole wiki now fully updated and accurate: Hole Wiki Page | |||
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