most underpowered group class in the game

[Fammaden]

Originally Posted by eqravenprince [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No one has really said anything to change my mind about wizards being the most underpowered group class and warriors being 2nd most underpowered. Wizard it's obvious, they have zero sustained DPS, can't heal, can't debuff, can't buff, have burst damage and root which many classes have. As for Warrior, SK and Pally tank better which is the primary purpose, and you really only need 1 tank, that leaves DPS which Warrior is behind many classes in that department.

The thing about tanks though is groups often find themselves wanting/needing one, even though each group only needs one. So some days as a warrior you'll be stuck LFG but many days you'll get fast invites, especially if you even have a little bit of decent gear/weapons and aren't completely afkterrible as a player.

And as long as someone roots shit warriors are better meatshields anyway. So unlike druids and wizards you'll actually get quite a lot of group invites as a warrior, making them a significantly more powerful PuG class overall even if their aggro/pull toolkit is lacking compared to knights.

[eqravenprince]

Originally Posted by Fammaden [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The thing about tanks though is groups often find themselves wanting/needing one, even though each group only needs one. So some days as a warrior you'll be stuck LFG but many days you'll get fast invites, especially if you even have a little bit of decent gear/weapons and aren't completely afkterrible as a player.

And as long as someone roots shit warriors are better meatshields anyway. So unlike druids and wizards you'll actually get quite a lot of group invites as a warrior, making them a significantly more powerful PuG class overall even if their aggro/pull toolkit is lacking compared to knights.

If you already have a healer, then yeah, adding a Druid is worse than Warrior. I will admit that. However, because Druids can do multiple things, they are fantastic to have in a pick up group just due to that flexibility. Yes, you could get a bit more DPS without the Druid, but keeping the group rolling when people leave is more important.

[eunomios]

Originally Posted by eqravenprince [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

that leaves DPS which Warrior is behind many classes in that department.

Warrior in beserker rage is broken/OP when done right. Crits do trail off a bit at higher levels when mob AC starts to advance. A warrior in a high level XP group is a rep tank when the current Tank has to afk or log out. Being able to use Defensive Disc once in awhile to let healers med a bit or when shit hits the fan is very very nice also. If parsed I think it would open a lot of eyes. The higher skill caps and potential Crits do translate well to compete with Monk Kicks and Rogue Backstabs.... and ofc the warrior can tank when needed better than a rogue anyway.

Everyone loves Paladins and Shadowknights but if I had to form a min/max group the tank would be a Warrior and 30 mana would be spent to root the main assist mob, or there'd be a mage earth pet because Warriors do much better dmg. basicly... pull mob, root mob, warrior taunts and every1 goes ham. By the 20s 3 med ticks covers a root, and even less once clarity is avail, Earth pets are freee. A good DPS group doesn't care about mobs turning at low health with snare to save on taking dmg bc shit goes 15pct to 0 in no time - Also Dmg shields. Hybrid tanks that have to pull can't med and need break prior to clarity.

AND Warriors HAVE NO EXP PENALTY for the chucnk of classic EQ that Hybrid tanks do !

[socialist]

I've always found the root-tanking strategy to be junk unless it's an all-melee group with no DD procs on their weapons. In most organic group setups, root on the main target will last five seconds tops as all the various forms of DDs each has a good chance to break it. Anything from necro/mage pets to weapon procs will ensure that root is a shortlived affair unless you specifically have a group full of epic rogues or some shit. It's one of those things that work in theory but usually don't work in practice. Making your group's entire tanking strategy rely wholly on keeping every single mob rooted for the entirety of every fight throughout a whole grinding session is such a hassle.

[eisley]

Originally Posted by socialist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I've always found the root-tanking strategy to be junk unless it's an all-melee group with no DD procs on their weapons. In most organic group setups, root on the main target will last five seconds tops as all the various forms of DDs each has a good chance to break it. Anything from necro/mage pets to weapon procs will ensure that root is a shortlived affair unless you specifically have a group full of epic rogues or some shit. It's one of those things that work in theory but usually don't work in practice. Making your group's entire tanking strategy rely wholly on keeping every single mob rooted for the entirety of every fight throughout a whole grinding session is such a hassle.

another 30 mana root or 35 mana stun can handle these situations pretty well. though i don't see breaks as often as you do, it does highly depend on group.

[Cen]

While I think Druids and Wizards are both fantastic classes, in small group play, they are a little more ineffective, though never useless.

I bet some folks might think Necro's aren't too amazing in parties but I think the pet DPS in conjunction with the support battery abilities push it way higher then a lot consider. If a cleric is present, its better then a second cleric because of the pet DPS added in.

[Bardp1999]

Necros dont get really good at healing until 54 so people forget or don't know that they are actually probably the best secondary healer in the game for the 54-60 grind.

Hell, in some situations they are better than a Cleric because of the other utility. I main heal as a Necro often

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by Bardp1999 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Necros dont get really good at healing until 54 so people forget or don't know that they are actually probably the best secondary healer in the game for the 54-60 grind.

Hell, in some situations they are better than a Cleric because of the other utility. I main heal as a Necro often

55+ ranger with swiftwind / cloak of the dark skies and 55+ Necromancer is just such a balls to the wall cornerstone to a grind group. It’s like having 3 dps toons, heals, pulls and cc all covered in just 2 slots.

Chloroplast and skin like nature stack so well with necromancer. Shadowbond is great for keeping the ranger alive.

Highlevel rng/nec are eq’s odd couple - complete opposites that compliment each other perfectly.

Just for this synergy I find it difficult to declare either as most underpowered group class - even if the ranger admittedly has a bit of a difficult stretch high 40s / low 50s, particularly if it isn’t geared up yet.

[Danth]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just for this synergy I find it difficult to declare either as most underpowered group class - even if the ranger admittedly has a bit of a difficult stretch high 40s / low 50s, particularly if it isn’t geared up yet.

While I don't put it at the bottom, if a ranger needs raid loot to desirable for a regular mid 50's experience group, that's hardly a ringing endorsement. Any character's good when it overgears the content. The ranger, specifically, is probably at its best in smaller-than-full groups where its versatile nature is most likely to make an impact.

Danth

[socialist]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

While I don't put it at the bottom, if a ranger needs raid loot to desirable for a regular mid 50's experience group, that's hardly a ringing endorsement. Any character's good when it overgears the content. The ranger, specifically, is probably at its best in smaller-than-full groups where its versatile nature is most likely to make an impact.

Danth

Doesn't really take raid gear to tank group content, even for a ranger. You can absolutely tank for exp groups wearing stuff from the Barbed Ringmail tier of gear. And for any content that a ranger doesn't struggle to tank, it is the best tank. Higher DPS than knights, and the best aggro (meaning the cheapest, which is the best, since the tank's mana is often the bottleneck in a chain-pulling group).