Classic PvP: I was there. The truth about teams, item loot, etc

[runlvlzero]

People argue IRL history all the time... lizard people, luminatis, nazis, vikings, chinese, u name it something not right about it in the history books.

[Tradesonred]

Im of course assuming SZ server is the ruleset they will go for.

I assume this because its a classic themed project.

If they implement some of what that epic long post about a modified SZ proposed, plus a level range, plus no xp loss in pvp, plus some other stuff, then i could see it working, maybe.

But since it would be a custom server, I dont see it happening.

[valithteezee]

Originally Posted by Rokannis [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Because on FFA its all about you, or your guild. On teams, its about your TEAM and your guild. You are never just fighting for yourself. The health of your team is important to your experience, and it drives / motivates you to assist in that. Its a WHOLE different meta than anything you've seen unless you have actually played it.

Its clear that anyone who plays an EQEMU is a fucking nerd. We wouldn't be playing a 15 year old game if we weren't. Whether you are a closet nerd or 500 pound neckbeard nerd. You are one. Psychologically people like to associate themselves to something, for most of us its a game, for non-nerds, they have favorite sports teams. When in a game that has "team" choice, we associate ourselves with a team, and then our race/character. For non-nerds, they become die-hard fans of their team. Win or lose, its "fuck the other guys, my teams the best". This holds true in nerd-world. When playing SZ rules (good, evil or neutral), its "fuck the other guys, my teams the best, I'll defend this zone till my fingers bleed and be an e-hero". Kids love being e-heroes, its really the only reason people play this shit. E-hero with E-pixels. In an FFA scenario, you have nothing to fight for but your own survival. Sure you can join a guild, but that is still a very small minority of players that you care about. Those who are non-guilded have no incentive to do anything but fend for themselves.

Its all psychology man. No one is thinking of these rules in terms of game design. Game design, rules, and mechanics promote certain game play. You have rules that make the player only care about himself, you get a selfish community. You have rules that promote team play and co-operation, you see much less selfish players. They don't dissappear completely, but they die down. Team play promotes community, people play MMO's to play with others.

Theres a reason why SZ rules worked on live, and a reason why it was the last PVP rule-set server to be released because it was supposed to be a solution to the problems all the other ones had. Guess what, it worked, and we all had a fucking blast and have yet to re-live that same experience.

This.

[valithteezee]

I bet 10% to 20% of blue will reroll on team server and stay because it has elements of both PVP/blue(team safety). Should do it.

I never played on SZ but as far as proposed teams goes, what are all the possible combinations?

TZ was Shorty vs Elves Vs humanoids vs darkies.

Im not familiar with all the possible race/class combo's with an SZ deity system but what about Shorty/Elves Vs Humanoids Vs Darkies for new team server to promote balance??

The best we can hope for is for is minor tweaks that make balance and PVP more fun and allow for the game to still be fun.

[Doktoor]

Originally Posted by Vexenu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There's a reason that an SZ-like ruleset has the most vocal support. That's not some kind of accident. It's because the people who experienced SZ (most of whom also played on RZ or VZ/TZ, by the way) know for a fact that it is the EQ ruleset that created the most memorable server experience by far.

There's also a reason that SZ had by far the lowest server population out of all servers.

EDIT: And I suppose I should clarify that I believe it was more because training was allowed (which means its de facto encouraged) than it was the teams, but the fact that the goods and nuets never really had a chance was a smaller reason, but a reason nonetheless.

Teams kinda worked on VZ and TZ for a time because there were over 1K (I remember seeing 1400 frequently throughout Y2K) people playing on the servers at peak hours. There's no way that this server is going to match that.

If people really want teams, then the more teams you have, the more you're going to dilute the playing field and thus the pvp interaction. It's just numbers. If you're gonna do it, there should be 2, or one is going to become completely irrelevant, just like on SZ.

[Absynthe2k5]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't understand why there cannot be some sort of programmatic means of keeping the teams balanced in terms of numbers. A couple of simple examples:

1. Measure the total playtime of light vs dark and prevent players from creating toons of the other class

2. Give some sort of bonus (the simplest one would be a resistance bonus) to whichever side is losing, i.e. if its 60/40 dark/light then the lighties get +20/all, if its 80/20 the lighties get +100/all

3. Randomly spawn kos-to-strong-side NPCs, e.g. if there is a big PVP event going on and one side is hugely outnumbered, 20 gnome warriors might suddenly spawn and attack the dark elves from behind

Some great ideas~

[heartbrand]

Best way would be the game randomly assigns a team to your account that keeps numbers even and that's your team. Each team would be assigned a starting area and I guess faction would need to be tweaked slightly. Team Qeynos / Team Freeport / Team Faydwer. Hard coded.

[Absynthe2k5]

Originally Posted by Doktoor [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There's also a reason that SZ had by far the lowest server population out of all servers.

EDIT: And I suppose I should clarify that I believe it was more because training was allowed (which means its de facto encouraged) than it was the teams, but the fact that the goods and nuets never really had a chance was a smaller reason, but a reason nonetheless.

Teams kinda worked on VZ and TZ for a time because there were over 1K (I remember seeing 1400 frequently throughout Y2K) people playing on the servers at peak hours. There's no way that this server is going to match that.

If people really want teams, then the more teams you have, the more you're going to dilute the playing field and thus the pvp interaction. It's just numbers. If you're gonna do it, there should be 2, or one is going to become completely irrelevant, just like on SZ.

You said it had the lowest pop I'd like to facts cause my memory says different but I could be wrong also.

On SZ population meant nothing in terms of power, in fact evils having higher pop just made a target rich environment. I had bags and bags of coins and was most likely the crappiest gear crappiest played ranger on the server.

Now I loved SZ but I also like FFA, if you can make it so guildies can't screw with each other for raiding. Though FF in battle is a whole other good dynamic for mass pvp. I don't mind lvl ranges but it fosters twinks wheras no lvl engage limit you can have a 60 com in and clean out the bajillion platinum geared twinks.

[Rec]

I remember SZ being the most popular server in the list but that was when it was fairly new and I don't remember checking the population after that. I'd like to see some proof of the various server pops as well. Considering the argument is starting to boil down to what something should be based on someone's recollection of what was most popular.

[Absynthe2k5]

Originally Posted by Vexenu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

SZ was the culmination of EQ PvP. It was a ruleset specifically engineered by EQ devs to address the failures of RZ, TZ and VZ. No item loot. No crossteaming. No level ranges. No immortal healers, no naked casters, no frantic bagging of items or other incentives to avoid PvP. Just lots of meaningful PvP between teams competing for leveling spots, item camps and raid mobs. Big fights, small fights, multi-zone skirmishes. PvP everywhere. It was war, and it felt like it.

There's a reason that an SZ-like ruleset has the most vocal support. That's not some kind of accident. It's because the people who experienced SZ (most of whom also played on RZ or VZ/TZ, by the way) know for a fact that it is the EQ ruleset that created the most memorable server experience by far.

+1