Variance

[lite]

Variance is the best thing to continue server growth. Zerging is too convenient in a non variance server. Variance allows for smaller crews to have an opportunity by placing emphasis of the target they see as most important. Azrael continued to promote variance in order to deter zerg mode even when they were at top and controlling every pixel at its 168th hour. Simulated repops was an interesting concept but an overall failure since rogean has to trigger it each time and subsequently we've gone months without one. The man is busy and has a lot going on, understandable.

Anyways, you'll still catch my black ass in VP every sunday, where numbers aren't everything and warm bodies can actually hinder you. PS , this sunday I will be out of town, enjoy =/

[Nirgon]

Stop gearing Nilly apps for Velious bro

[Gaanon]

Lite isn't the leader of Red Dawn I know you're a stupid fuck that only played here briefly and was bad then.

[citizen1080]

Variance is the worst possible thing you could implement to help a smaller guild. You obviously have not played on blue.

[hivemind]

A no variance system rewards the guild/force/team that is most dominant. Why is this? It should be fairly easy to understand, but let me explain this for anyone who might have some sort of cognitive deficiency:

First, what do I mean by the guild/force/team that is most dominant? I'm referring to the guild that is able to kill the majority of the raid content--currently Nihilum(?), previously Azrael (few weeks), and then before that Nihilum (?). The group that kills Dragon X dictates when Dragon X will respawn... to the second. In this way, the group that is in power gets more powerful by getting more loot and getting an *exact* timer.

The particularly problematic part of this equation, is that the "strength in numbers" strategy is simply too strong in Everquest. This can be observed in a strict PVE context where we are talking about 32khp dragons and a non-capped raid force. Clearly it is advantageous to recruit/bring as many people to a raid as possible, since "zerging" is an incredibly effective strategy that is viable because of the open-raid structure of this game. So we can see that in PVE there is a clear and massive advantage for zerging down content. Now when we contextualize this purely pve example within the confines of a pvp server... well, now there is even more reason and even more benefit to bringing even more people. Surely some of this content is doable with 2-3 groups (assuming no interference). Yes, it would be more brainless with more people, but let's assume possibility of interference (since this is a pvp server) and at this point "strength in numbers" is the only strat worth considering.

With a no variance system, guilds/teams/forces can schedule "raid" and "pvp" times. Again, make clear note that the dominant force will actually be able to control spawn timers (and I believe there was a period of time where dragons were repopping and being slain at 6am in the morning (I have no idea what time zone, assumedly somewhere in the US)). This is a clear counterexample to the argument that when everyone knows the spawn timer for a raid boss, there will be pvp contention. When the dragon-slayers have complete control of when a boss dies, it makes the server less competitive.

PvP at end game on this server is sort of like old school warfare. Everyone knows the time and the place that the war is going to take place, and each force lines up their infantry, artillery, and cavalry. I am not kidding when I tell you that these guilds spend hours buffing/rebuffing in preparation for the first repop... logging out hoards of alternate characters/other accounts in the vicinity of where the first pvp battle will take place. It is anything but spontaneous, and in this way it's categorically different than any pvp that takes place lvl 55 and lower. In my opinion, pvp loses a lot of the fun when it becomes so structured and contrived.

The most surprising part of all of this is that the blue server apparently has variance. And you know what they all complain about? FTE ruling. Well -- I do not think the concept of tracking a zone for 12+ hours, or this concept of javelin-spamming at spawn point are the sort of problems that red players can't work out amongst themselves... Most importantly, with variance a 100 person guild will not be able to schedule 80% of their members to show up at a specific time on a specific day to contest an entire week's worth of raid content. Instead, players/groups/guilds will be awarded for being online (AND DISCOVERING) that a raid target is up. Extra emphasis will be placed on quickly discovering targets are up, forming a raid force and mobilizing to either kill or contest the mob. Bat-phones exist, but with a variance system there will NECESSARILY be less people contesting the mob from each side which will make both the strict pve as well as the pvp encounters **more skill focused and less numbers reliant**. Variance adds different avenues to outplay a more dominant guild that relies heavily/primarily on numbers/static timers. Again, finding a raid-target shortly after it has spawned, being able to quickly mobilize, attempting pve content with smaller numbers (if a dragon is up and you have people and there is no competition... try to kill the dragon with what you have before the opposing force realizes its up)--these will all be new and important components of strategy for each guild.

There is no easy way to hard-code in some formula for population balance, especially since this is a "FFA" pvp server (which in functionality is a 2 team pvp server lvl 56+). Nevertheless, population balance is a integral part of this game. My recommendation is to hard-code in some very easy fixes, starting with a variance system that you are apparently already running on blue. Copy/paste should not be so difficult. Implementing variance will definitely help decrease how much reward any group/team/force gets for stacking numbers. This is not to say that "strength in numbers" will discontinue being an effective strategy... the people employing it will just not be rewarded as heavily.

[quido]

Originally Posted by citizen1080 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Variance is the worst possible thing you could implement to help a smaller guild. You obviously have not played on blue.

It's a bit different on red, Bob. Think about it.

[Nirgon]

Originally Posted by Gaanon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Lite isn't the leader of Red Dawn I know you're a stupid fuck that only played here briefly and was bad then.

Ah yes that old spark, trolling the variance threads

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Originally Posted by citizen1080 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Variance is the worst possible thing you could implement to help a smaller guild. You obviously have not played on blue.

Funny how Bob and I try to save you from yourself.

[Sektor]

Originally Posted by hivemind [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A no variance system rewards the guild/force/team that is most dominant. Why is this? It should be fairly easy to understand, but let me explain this for anyone who might have some sort of cognitive deficiency:

First, what do I mean by the guild/force/team that is most dominant? I'm referring to the guild that is able to kill the majority of the raid content--currently Nihilum(?), previously Azrael (few weeks), and then before that Nihilum (?). The group that kills Dragon X dictates when Dragon X will respawn... to the second. In this way, the group that is in power gets more powerful by getting more loot and getting an *exact* timer.

The particularly problematic part of this equation, is that the "strength in numbers" strategy is simply too strong in Everquest. This can be observed in a strict PVE context where we are talking about 32khp dragons and a non-capped raid force. Clearly it is advantageous to recruit/bring as many people to a raid as possible, since "zerging" is an incredibly effective strategy that is viable because of the open-raid structure of this game. So we can see that in PVE there is a clear and massive advantage for zerging down content. Now when we contextualize this purely pve example within the confines of a pvp server... well, now there is even more reason and even more benefit to bringing even more people. Surely some of this content is doable with 2-3 groups (assuming no interference). Yes, it would be more brainless with more people, but let's assume possibility of interference (since this is a pvp server) and at this point "strength in numbers" is the only strat worth considering.

With a no variance system, guilds/teams/forces can schedule "raid" and "pvp" times. Again, make clear note that the dominant force will actually be able to control spawn timers (and I believe there was a period of time where dragons were repopping and being slain at 6am in the morning (I have no idea what time zone, assumedly somewhere in the US)). This is a clear counterexample to the argument that when everyone knows the spawn timer for a raid boss, there will be pvp contention. When the dragon-slayers have complete control of when a boss dies, it makes the server less competitive.

PvP at end game on this server is sort of like old school warfare. Everyone knows the time and the place that the war is going to take place, and each force lines up their infantry, artillery, and cavalry. I am not kidding when I tell you that these guilds spend hours buffing/rebuffing in preparation for the first repop... logging out hoards of alternate characters/other accounts in the vicinity of where the first pvp battle will take place. It is anything but spontaneous, and in this way it's categorically different than any pvp that takes place lvl 55 and lower. In my opinion, pvp loses a lot of the fun when it becomes so structured and contrived.

The most surprising part of all of this is that the blue server apparently has variance. And you know what they all complain about? FTE ruling. Well -- I do not think the concept of tracking a zone for 12+ hours, or this concept of javelin-spamming at spawn point are the sort of problems that red players can't work out amongst themselves... Most importantly, with variance a 100 person guild will not be able to schedule 80% of their members to show up at a specific time on a specific day to contest an entire week's worth of raid content. Instead, players/groups/guilds will be awarded for being online (AND DISCOVERING) that a raid target is up. Extra emphasis will be placed on quickly discovering targets are up, forming a raid force and mobilizing to either kill or contest the mob. Bat-phones exist, but with a variance system there will NECESSARILY be less people contesting the mob from each side which will make both the strict pve as well as the pvp encounters **more skill focused and less numbers reliant**. Variance adds different avenues to outplay a more dominant guild that relies heavily/primarily on numbers/static timers. Again, finding a raid-target shortly after it has spawned, being able to quickly mobilize, attempting pve content with smaller numbers (if a dragon is up and you have people and there is no competition... try to kill the dragon with what you have before the opposing force realizes its up)--these will all be new and important components of strategy for each guild.

There is no easy way to hard-code in some formula for population balance, especially since this is a "FFA" pvp server (which in functionality is a 2 team pvp server lvl 56+). Nevertheless, population balance is a integral part of this game. My recommendation is to hard-code in some very easy fixes, starting with a variance system that you are apparently already running on blue. Copy/paste should not be so difficult. Implementing variance will definitely help decrease how much reward any group/team/force gets for stacking numbers. This is not to say that "strength in numbers" will discontinue being an effective strategy... the people employing it will just not be rewarded as heavily.

Well written post whoever you are.

[Nirgon]

its like taking sharp objects away from your retarded children
and them throwing a fit

[Sektor]

Originally Posted by Nirgon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

its like taking sharp objects away from your retarded children
and them throwing a fit

Do you even play on red or blue? lol 11k posts you are SICK.