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Planar Protector
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After the 2003/2004 reduction to song aggro.
https://web.archive.org/web/20050218...x?PostID=21053
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ninuvian is not online. Last active: 3/10/2004 8:39:19 PM ninuvian
Joined: 25 Jan 2004
Total Posts: 5
Can bards be tanks?
Posted: Feb 12 04 4:35 PM
Hey all i just wanna know if bard can tank?
I sing for glory! I sing for rallos zek! http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=933661
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delanion is not online. Last active: 11/1/2004 8:21:14 AM delanion
Joined: 23 Oct 2002
Total Posts: 22
Re: Can bards be tanks?
Posted: Feb 12 04 4:45 PM
Yes, bards can tank. No, they don't do it particularly well. We have armor like a pally / Sk, but hp like a ranger, defensive skills a little lower than any other hybrid(iirc), and very little capability to get and maintain aggro.
If you want to be a bard capable of tanking, then focus on AC / hp gear over all other stats. This is how I built my bard and I would definately say I am more versatile because of it. Getting and maintaining aggro is half a function of you working at getting it, half a function of everyone else letting you have it. Dots and Shield of Songs are good ways to get aggro in groups, depending on level.
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corahvz is not online. Last active: 10/7/2004 7:44:11 PM corahvz
Joined: 06 Sep 2002
Total Posts: 4
Re: Can bards be tanks?
Posted: Feb 12 04 5:57 PM
Yea, we can tank - it's keeping agro that is the real problem!
Muse Corah
Maestro ~ Defiant ~ Vallon Zek
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Canorous is not online. Last active: 10/7/2004 8:13:05 PM Canorous
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Joined: 10 Feb 2004
Total Posts: 13
Re: Can bards be tanks?
Posted: Feb 12 04 11:16 PM
As I remember one bard in EQDiva telling me a while back "We do not play to hold agro, we pray to hold agro." Lived by it ever since [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
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https://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/...tml?item=18069
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RE: Bards agro
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#Jan 25 2005 at 8:41 PMRating: Decent
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229 posts
Yes. Bard aggro was reduced across the board a long time ago. The problem was the huge aggro generated by things like AE regen, which heals everyone in a raid.
I can snare, HoS (resist debuf), slow and bellow at a mob while bringing it into camp. A warrior can shoot an arrow and miss and it heads straight for him. Actually, he doesn't even have to do that. If he's still hitting on the last mob it will peal off on him as it passes by.
FYI, bards do get double attack via AAs. Not as good perhaps, but we still get it.
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Before the 2003/2004 reduction to song aggro.
https://web.archive.org/web/20020111...ss=4&start=325
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E: Bardic Frustration Reply... By: Anonymous
Posted @ Sun, Apr 1st 6:29 PM 2001 Score: Good[4.00]
ooc
I play a bard on Tallon Zek, and she is wonderful. All I can say is, the best is yet to come. Be happy with your level, because with each level, you have something new to play with.
In terms of combat, the songs I play/decide upon, depends on the group itself, and what the group is doing.
At early 20's, my best experience was in a full group at the porch of the sarnak fort. We were going almost non stop, train after train, we did that for a three days, and apparently the group told me it could not be done without a bard. (me).
What was I doing?
Tanking with weapons, tanking with instruments, slowing, snaring, mezzing with instruments, mezzing without instruments, healing with instruments, anthem, pulling off casters, etc. It depends on whether its tank heavy, caster heavy, has fidgety members etc.
You, of all people, have to guage the group, and see. For example, a certain puller tends to like to pull large trains. And a certain wizard in the group likes to over nuke.
What to do? Well, mez song comes to mind. But also snare. In this case, if there's a good tank, I may not use snare. If tanks are not good, I go with weapons and snare to make sure that I can taunt off the poor wizard. Or, I may use Mez with an instrument and switch to all CHR gear.
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RE: Some advice on Brass Reply... By: Kollins, Sage
141 posts
Posted @ Thu, Apr 5th 7:11 AM 2001 Score: Excellent[4.66]
Brass can be improved without it affecting anything you just don't get any animation. The best thing to do with brass instrument skill is to not put a point into it until you get your song at 18. If you train at 18 then you start with a skill of 18 not a skill of 11 and it makes it easier to start the song and the skill doesn't have to go up as much. As for what/how the ultimate would be to don enough gear for 200 int and drop your bard in the non-PvP part of The Arena for however long your ISP will let you stay (afk of course) but some alternatives are the tunnel in N Ro as suggested and also the top of the ramp to highpass in EK, up on the sides. EC side of the tunnel is dangerous, some wise guy will see you and train one of those butt kicking ninja merchants down on you when your afk. Any isolated spot works but it's best if you are far enough away from mobs/guards/NPCs that only a fellow bard could survive trying to train something that could kill you.
All you have to do is mem your song, put your horn in your offhand and fire it up. Then you just go afk for a good 6-8 hour span and when you come back to your computer you will see you have brass skill now (if you get dumped you can always check your log file for your current skill.) As with most skills some stats seem to affect the speed you skill up, for instruments it seems to be the higher of int or wis like trade skills so grab some int gear if you have it since that will help; Most bards have higher int than wis and technically we are int casters although I won't get into bard mana here. This is easy to do if you start up a song before you go to bed, then check it in the morning. It's also handy to put in an AFK message although I had put in '/afk practicing brass skill' and when I checked my logs a few people had sent me tells then replied to my afk message like they didn't belive it.
After you get your skill maxed it's a good idea to find a semi remote spot and play it every new level so you keep the skill current. Other instrument skills are easy because there are non damage songs that you can use but brass is the most annoying because of the types of songs that use the skill until you get berzerker crescendo at 42 (crappy song btw, I had better luck using the old celerity song over crescendo.) Once you get to level 26 you can practice with appalling screech which opens up the places you can practice a little to now include any zone where you can 'scare' anything that gets trained to you before it tries to kill you, like gfay.
The reason you want your instrument skills maxed is because any song that requires an instruement skill will have a higher fizzle rate, known to bards as missed notes, if you have low skill, this includes songs that you 'sing' with weapons equipped which start or don't start based on their skill ie if your string skill sucks you can't start up hymm even if you have your swords equipped. The reason you want brass skill is because DDD is a killer AE DoT and a great mega taunt for keeping your group healers free (it's also fun to kill newbie mobs with) and fear song is something that you will almost always have memmed from 26 to 60.
Oh yea, in case anybody didn't know, the max skill for all instrument skills and singing is the formula: (level + 1) * 5
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https://web.archive.org/web/20020111...ss=4&start=275
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RE: Stats and Armor Reply... By: Anonymous
Posted @ Tue, May 15th 9:58 PM 2001 Score: Default[2.00]
Hi, I'm a 51 bard on rodcet nife and as people call us, "jack of all trades" you have to take that into concideration everywhere you go. At the lower levels(15-30) i solo'ed everywhere i went. I think the only reason why i could do this was because i was a twink, but when you buy armor you have to consider what you need the most. I had two pieces of SS armor and mith for the str. I rocketed through the levels because of the ac and str i could solo. Later in the 30's i had to concentrate more towards grouping a little and that means new armor(yes trading armor is time consuming but it helps). You have to start working for AC items and that means ss because it has better AC than some planar. At my level, AC is god, plain and simple. Str, dex,agi,cha you don't really need to concentrate on because that shammy in your group can raise it over 50 points. You have to think about what you use and your armor will decide whether you live or you don't. When a protector of growth misses you 4 times in a row, you sit back and smile because you would have easily been down to 1/2 life. Bards do not do dmg at higher levels. I hate to say this ,but that mage pet in my group hits harder than i do, but bards aren't about the dmg, it's the songs we do, and when we get too much agro, we have to have the AC to hold off while the cleric heals the tanks. I hope my info has helped in any way, shape or form and good luck in the hunting. Kunark is simply the best place to fight 18-50.
H. Silvertune
51 minstrel of Rodcet Nife
Long live Anarchy's dominion!!
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https://web.archive.org/web/20020111...ss=4&start=250
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RE: Need More Advice Reply... By: Anonymous
Posted @ Fri, May 18th 12:40 PM 2001 Score: Default[2.00]
IMHO, you can twist your lvl 1 song Chant of Battle and lvl 6 song Hymn of Restoration to buff and heal your party during battles. Try to throw in your lvl 2 song Chords of Dissonance in between if you could. At lower level your tanks won't be doing massive demage yet, so I'd suggest you to melee as well if you are not in a full group/nearly-full group while twisting songs. Watch out for the mobs though. Since your songs have a huge taunting effect, you might get several mobs aggro on you instead of the tanks. At time like this, stop your songs and let the tanks to tuant the mobs off you. Then you can start twisting again. =)After you hit lvl 8 and have learned the skill of stringed instruments, you can have a choice of playing instrument instead of doing melee when you are in a full group/nearly full group. Since both the Chords and Hymn are more powerful when played with stringed instruments, you can DoT and heal your group more while still buffing them with the Chant. Of course, don't forget to play your Hymn during down time. =)
Hope this helps.
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https://web.archive.org/web/20020111...ss=4&start=225
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RE: Attribute allocation. Reply... By: Anonymous
Posted @ Tue, Jun 5th 8:18 AM 2001 Score: Default[1.50]
Post 50 bards are the best crowd controlers as they have the AC to handle the agro generated by the mobs. Enchanters die to fast.
The only thing that matters to charm/mezzing is Charisma. Therefore put all your points into CHA to allow better crowd control. Then put the remaining into DEX for better instrument playing. Dont worry bout str or stam, you roll is not to generate dmg, but help the group generate dmg.
Hope this helps.
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https://web.archive.org/web/20020111...ss=4&start=125
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Tactics Reply... By: riffler,
5 posts
Posted @ Wed, Aug 22nd 7:47 PM 2001 Score: Decent[3.00]
Haven't played my Bard for months, but reading the discussions on what songs to play reminded me of the time I was camping orcs in HHP...
It was a quiet time on the server, and I was grouped with 2 tanks, noone else around. With a group that small ( all level 18-19 ) the orc camps is pretty much impossible without significant twinkage, right?
Wrong. I let the tanks take an orc each while I played area DoTs and heal, swapping instruments and trying to stay out of trouble. It was very tiring work, but we held the camp for about an hour, no problem, when more people started to join up (including a cleric, thankfully [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] ). I was too tired to pay much attention to what was going on, and anyway, most of the orcs were still dying from DoTs, suggesting I was still outdamaging everyone else, so I stuck with my tactics, when the group suddenly got into a mess - not taking orcs down quickly enough, and getting hit by fast respawn. There I was still playing area DoTs/ heals and therefore getting MASSIVE aggro from 5 or 6 orcs. OUCH. I just carried on - no way were they going to leave me alone with my hps down to where they were and all that aggro already achieved, and fortunately the cleric managed to heal me and all the orcs were killed and I survived.
So, my point is, use of unusual songs by a switched-on bard can make a group far more effective than it has any right to be. Don't just unthinkingly play what's worked in the past or what people tell you to play, THINK. And most of all, if the situation changes, RETHINK [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
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RE: Endevor Reply... By: Belinar,
5 posts
Posted @ Mon, Aug 27th 10:57 AM 2001 Score: Excellent[4.50]
We was talking about twisting Hymn during battle, I believe.
Here's what I do. As a lvl 32 ( soon to be 33 ) bard, this is a good line-up ( according to my groups )
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** note here **
After you sick your pet on the mob, ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS hit F1 twice and re-target your pet! forgetting to do this can really mess up your CC. Charm is the most Uber taunt in the world...it put's all other forms of taunt to shame, and unless you charm the same one over and over again, you'll have an entire host of former pets a little annoied at you. ( I'd even venture to say it's on par or better than complete heal )
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https://web.archive.org/web/20020308...ass=4&start=50
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RE: Bards = CRAP Reply... By: Mahatma, Scholar
42 posts
Posted @ Thu, Nov 8th 1:09 PM 2001 Score: Decent[2.70]
Actually, a bard can quite effectively steal the aggro off a caster that has over nuked or the enchanter whose mez just got resisted in a mere 6 seconds. How? Remember that charm song you get at level 28 and 39? Well, it also has a mem blur effect tacked onto the end of it. The mob will not remember who or what did the damage it has received, but it WILL remember that the bard charmed it and it must've done something it didn't really want to do. Now the mob is rushing the bard!
Ack!! Bards can't take hits very well!
Well, when the bard hides to erase the charm, the chanter can just throw on a root or try to mez again, now that he/she's not getting interrupted. Or the bard takes a few more hits than the caster could while the main tank taunts it off. Or the bard doesn't hide and uses his new pet to kill the other mob that just jumped that cleric that's medding for your heals.
Alone, bards kindof stink (if you're looking at them from a warrior's perspective). They can't melee or deal significant damage, and they can't rapidly heal lost hitpoints. But a bard in a group makes a very strong group. Case in point...
4 Tanks, 1 Cleric: The bard twists regen and haste for the tanks, possibly slows down the mob's attack so the fight doesn't last long, thereby reducing the amount of mana the cleric has to use to heal up those sacks of hitpoints. During downtimes, the bard is regenning the cleric's mana and the other tanks hitpoints while the puller is busy finding a mob.
Some groups you would normally consider just a pogrom of the most ineffective classes, when coupled with a bard, become killing machines. Rangers don't tank too well, shamans don't heal as well as a cleric, Pallies tank, but don't deal damage and don't heal too well, etc.
Summary: Bards are the utility-man of any group.
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https://web.archive.org/web/20020308...ass=4&start=25
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A Bard does need an Audience indeed. Reply... By: kezefy,
1 posts
Posted @ Wed, Jan 23rd 12:20 AM 2002 Score: Decent[3.00]
Ever since I achieved the 50th level with my bard I receive numerous tells on what is the best way to play a bard. So I figured I'd share a few of the tricks I have learned.
Method 1: Solo, find a nice wide open area. Twist Selos (lvl 5), Largos melodic binding (lvl 20), Fufils (lvl 30), Chant of flame (lvl 38), Chant of Frost (lvl46).
*All songs except Largos are precussion so no instrument changes need. Also particularly effetive with nostrolo tambourine. (you can look up quest on this site)
*note this method does work at lower levels, but not nearly as effective without the 3 chants, also change out selos with newer version at lvl 49, and newer Largos at lvl 51.
Method 2 (my preferred method) Partner. Find a druid or a necro, put your partner in a safe spot. Pull a mob, with method 1 (also fyi if you have a druid, eliminate selos and take a sow, yes I know selos is faster, but sow is more dependable when twisting) bring back to your partner, they will root mob, and because necro and druid have Dot's they will not break root. You will hold aggro if you twist all 3 chants because you will be doing a little over 2000dmg in 60 secs with continuous twisting. If root breaks just run around till they are rerooted. A good necro or druid will only cast 1 or 2 dots per mob and will be able to med the rest of the time. They should never run out of mana, especially the necro with call of bones and lifetap. If done properly and if you dont aggro adds, you can do this without ever taking a hit, or having to stop and medditate. This has proven to be awesome exp for me and my partners.
Method 3 Group..Whatevers clever... each group is diff..but I recommend you position yourself between tanks and healer. The bard should be looked at as a healers assistant ie mana and deffense. You can still fight, but just from behind the front lines, whether it be with songs, or melee. FYI if you use your 3 chants you will prob do more dmg than the tanks. You'll notice this once you gain the aggro so be careful, contrary to popular belief...BARDS ARE NOT TANKS..we are not very good at it.
also one last point for you new prospective bards out there
Method 4 Solo in dungeons...DONT DO IT...without selos we get rocked, unless everything is absolute green, a blue mob will rock you.
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https://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/...tml?spell=1754
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RE: I don't see the point
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#Dec 01 2003 at 2:13 AMRating: Decent
__DEL__1593966228402
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194 posts
I think this song is very useful. There are many reasons why a bard could get a big mob aggroed on him. For example I could have been mezzing the mob, or I could have charmed the mob, or it could be an add that no one has done anything to which jumped on me as soon as it noticed i cast a group-wide buff (which generates aggro, of course, and happens every 3 seconds). And whether a bard can 'take hits' is not the point, you don't want mobs dishing out melee damage to many different people; it just makes it harder for your healer to keep up with it. I ALWAYS have this song memmed when I'm grouped in a dungeon, and find it quite useful.
I don't see the use of this song while soloing at all, though. If you want a mob to go after your charmed pet instead of you, just hit it with any targeted snare song and run away a bit. The mob will give up trying to chase you as soon as it realizes it's snared and will go after the pet... and as long as you don't generate more aggro, it'll stay on the pet even after the snare wears off.
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Commenter below indicates that at least certain specific procs were reliable sources of aggro for bards which does not support the notion that bard procs were all equally capped at that point, much less earlier.
https://web.archive.org/web/20040817...tID=8536#13136
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Anulien is not online. Last active: 8/15/2004 1:40:09 PM Anulien
www.triadica.us
Joined: 31 Dec 2002
Total Posts: 156
My tankbard game
Posted: Jun 25 03 9:42 PM
After getting bored yet again with my bard and kitting i decided to find something new to do with him, my new fun with my bard has been tanking. For the past month ive been cruising around finding things to tank that would normally be left to a real tank for taunt or hp purposes. I have found this to be one of the most enjoyable things to do with my bard. The exp usually sucks as my melee dps is low but the sheer exhiliration is worth it. I do not recommend this for everyone as the prep work has taken me some time and i have resources most dont, but if you are looking for something new to try this might be it.
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Weapons:
Primary: Snowchipper or Pebble Crusher for proc aggro
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Absolute riot! CHs back to back until slowed as they can double for 500+ a hit and do! Single pulled to exit, slowed at 90 and aggro was easy to maintain with pebble crusher + snowchipper.
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Charm still considered to be a reliable source of aggro, with dots being described as one alternative and slow being a mainstay.
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Joined: 08 Dec 2002
Total Posts: 440
Re: My tankbard game
Posted: Jun 26 03 3:38 AM
2300 unbuffed?? Gah, and you are tanking man?? I have 2545 unbuffed and I am few levels lower than you...got 1250 or so AC as well.
I find the level 27 charm to work great as a taunt....wont land, but resisted it still adds nice aggro, lol.
I have also found out that 3 dots and melee works well for gaining aggro, then after about 4 or 5 rounds of dots, drop them, and go blender mode with haste, buffs, and DS.
I duo all the time with my wifes druid, and I run a 70+ point DS depending on the song, which helps a lot in getting mobs dead.
I tank all the time with only bard slow, lol, and druid heals, hehe. However, what you lack in your toons is evac. Evac is your friend, lol. Something going bad? Mez and evac, all is well. Cant mez? Root and highsun, then evac fast before the train arrives.
Mystaviant BattleBard
Virtuoso
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Mystaviant is not online. Last active: 1/25/2004 3:29:59 PM Mystaviant
Joined: 08 Dec 2002
Total Posts: 440
Re: My tankbard game
Posted: Jun 30 03 5:43 AM
I havent found that SoS is any appreciable aggro. Angstlich's Assonance is nice aggro however, and will slow unsnareable mobs. I usually avoid mobs that cannot be mezzed, as that means that my healer/slower is toast if they pull aggro off me.
Also, on bard-slow...lots and lots of mobs, especially in pop have innate haste, or like in seb have haste spells cast on them, when you slow these types of mobs, you not only slow them 35%-52% but you also remove the effects of their haste as well, so it affects the rate at which they swing a rather large amount.
Example: Seb, random high level frog, hasted by a shammy frog...w/o I need 3 druid c-heals to win the fight, with slow, even 20% slow, I need 0-1 cheal, and take well less damage than a simple 4/5 of normal. Bard slow aint all that bad, on hasted mobs, tho I would much rather have a chanter there for 70% haste and slow, and to CC for me.
Mystaviant BattleBard
Virtuoso
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Summary: Comments pertaining to bard songs from launch to late 2001, all the way until mid 2003, do not reflect what was described from tests conducted and based on 2010+ content. |
04-05-2023, 07:11 PM
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