Cheating everywhere, GMs???

[azxten]

Originally Posted by Prismaticshop [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Time to get your priorities straight

also : seek help

These are the kinds of comments I'm referring to. All the trolls come out to attack people who actually try to make P99 better.

Same thing happened to me when I brought up Enchanter being broken and eventually focused on channeling being wildly unclassic as a partial cause that is easily proven.

For those of us who are bored of the stale P99 meta it becomes more enjoyable to analyze the game and try to improve things than to actually play. I had fun doing my analysis and I'm sure the OP did too.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by dk0 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm all for getting rid of cheaters and fair competition. But unfortunately I'm not sure this research does anything.

People have been using reaction time as a basis for cheating allegations since FTE was introduced, probably even earlier. There are so many variables involved related to latency, packet loss, etc. that "reaction time" can only be circumstantial evidence at best, no matter how convincing it may appear.

Staff can't take action on circumstantial evidence, it sets a really bad precedent that opens the door for tons of abuse moving forward. Ultimately, I think there needs to be a ruleset that innately supports fair competition (or at least minimizes opportunities to cheat), though I acknowledge that's not easy to do.

I think OP's 2 months would have been better spent social engineering a keylogger or process logger onto a target machine (protip: everybody wants to meet milfs in their area).

Yup, exactly this. Sadly OP didn't take into account the computer science aspect of the problem. He would need to have all of this data I list below to even begin to have a shot at proving anything concretely:

1. Where does everybody on the line live in relation to the server? The farther the distance from the server, the longer it will take to send and receive packets.

2. What is the average ping for everybody on the line? It is 100% possible Furoar has a lower ping than the majority of players on the server for whatever reason, which is why he has an advantage.

3. What ISP is everybody using on the line? Not all ISP's are created equal, and that may contribute to things like packet loss and data routing time.

4. What is the computer specs of everybody on the line? Framerate will differ between players, which means they may receive an update a bit slower.

5. What monitors are being used by everybody on the line? Same point as number 4.

6. How does the game prioritize and send out packets? Do you even know the rate at which the server sends message data vs. player update data? It is possible the data for players starting to move arrived at your computer before the message data. It is also possible message data gets sent less often than player update data.


Online games by their very nature have these kinds of variables built into the cake. The only way you could really compare reaction times is if everybody was playing in the same room, with the same computers and monitors, and the server was also in the same room. Think of a LAN party.

[Croco]

Originally Posted by dk0 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Staff can't take action on circumstantial evidence, it sets a really bad precedent that opens the door for tons of abuse moving forward. Ultimately, I think there needs to be a ruleset that innately supports fair competition (or at least minimizes opportunities to cheat), though I acknowledge that's not easy to do.

Yes they can. Staff can do whatever the fuck they want. People seem to think that playing on p99 is some constitutional right and that no one can ever get banned without evidence that's beyond a reasonable doubt (which this most certainly is) and that's a flat out joke. The reason takp has such a great community is they have a zero tolerance policy for fuckery and toxicity and they ban early and often. P99 csr and owners could take more than a couple pointers from how takp has crafted their community.

The one thing that goes unsaid in the video posted by the OP and that goes a long way towards backing up his point and research is that aside from the sample race where kickenit cheated on purpose to present evidence to the gm's every single race video on record where Stunningly is racing he gets off the line first. Every. Single. Time. No matter the time of day, no matter if it's a race on roll or race on spawn. It's not just his reaction time that's inhuman it's also his consistency. It's robotic. Almost like it's not coming from a human at all. No one ever beats him off the line, sometimes he's matched, but never beaten.

[Samoht]

Guys. Stunningly had 104 MS ping in one screen shot. This extrapolates to mean that every single time he is playing he also has 104 MS ping. And let me make up some numbers to translate this into frames per second... and... oh, look, Stunningly was beat by someone who is openly cheating.

It can't be the unhealthy amount of time Stunningly puts into practicing to get his starts, can it? Also, where's the payoff for all of his cheating? I can't remember the last time he even had an FTE.

In other words, good reaction time off the start does not necessarily translate to a win.

[PlsNoBan]

P99 raid scene being dumb and toxic? That's weird. Not like it hasn't been atrociously bad for a decade or anything

[rezzie]

Originally Posted by zeroz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

However it took me 2 months to research and make that video and it sat on the desk of the GMs for 3 months without a single reply, all while my guild slowly dies and the offending guild continually brags about beating us week after week.

How come you weren’t motivated to make this when you were in Riot and the cheats were securing you the mobs?

[rezzie]

When *they were in Riot

[zati]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yup, exactly this. Sadly OP didn't take into account the computer science aspect of the problem. He would need to have all of this data I list below to even begin to have a shot at proving anything concretely:

1. Where does everybody on the line live in relation to the server? The farther the distance from the server, the longer it will take to send and receive packets.

2. What is the average ping for everybody on the line? It is 100% possible Furoar has a lower ping than the majority of players on the server for whatever reason, which is why he has an advantage.

3. What ISP is everybody using on the line? Not all ISP's are created equal, and that may contribute to things like packet loss and data routing time.

4. What is the computer specs of everybody on the line? Framerate will differ between players, which means they may receive an update a bit slower.

5. What monitors are being used by everybody on the line? Same point as number 4.

6. How does the game prioritize and send out packets? Do you even know the rate at which the server sends message data vs. player update data? It is possible the data for players starting to move arrived at your computer before the message data. It is also possible message data gets sent less often than player update data.


Online games by their very nature have these kinds of variables built into the cake. The only way you could really compare reaction times is if everybody was playing in the same room, with the same computers and monitors, and the server was also in the same room. Think of a LAN party.

Maybe, but if those questions above were addressed; is it not still saying racing isn't fair to begin with even having /random on spawn? They'd all have to be in the same room jerking each other off for 16 hrs straight for a competitive race to even exist. Badain and Scout were changed to non-classic mechanics (shadowstep on spawn to /random to turn in) due to "actual proof of autofire" iirc. Would the solution be Statue or Dain and outdoor dragons spawning in random locations within the zone or being a /random by guild representatives? I'm totally not gas-lighting *turns on the gas and runs*

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by zati [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Maybe, but if those questions above were addressed; is it not still saying racing isn't fair to begin with even having /random on spawn? They'd all have to be in the same room jerking each other off for 16 hrs straight for a competitive race to even exist. Badain and Scout were changed to non-classic mechanics (shadowstep on spawn to /random to turn in) due to "actual proof of autofire" iirc. Would the solution be Statue or Dain and outdoor dragons spawning in random locations within the zone or being a /random by guild representatives? I'm totally not gas-lighting *turns on the gas and runs*

Everquest wasn't designed for this racing system in mind, so yeah it will probably never be very fair due to all of the technical issues. That is what you get when you are playing an emulated server of a 20 year old game[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Flopmoore]

Maybe they should have spent 2 months practicing race lines, but instead waste time writing novels vs of getting better.