most underpowered class in game?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ok man go do a group without any DPS, it will be SUPER fun and efficient. So no pet classes, no charming pets allowed either. No Rogues, no Monks.

Just like a Paladin, a healer, and like an enchanter (only class allowed to DPS is the Paladin). See how that goes. Yeah DPS is irrelevant in this game. Super big brain stuff bro.

I have been in groups like that, and they were great. Sorry you suck.

[cd288]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I have been in groups like that, and they were great. Sorry you suck.

See now you're just dying on the illogical hill you've created for yourself

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

See now you're just dying on the illogical hill you've created for yourself

nah, you just dont have enough play experience.

[Nycon43]

Yeah, sorry but saying dps doesn't matter is dumb. People may not be asking for your raider.io score or some shit like they do in WoW but that doesn't make it irrelevant.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Nycon43 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yeah, sorry but saying dps doesn't matter is dumb. People may not be asking for your raider.io score or some shit like they do in WoW but that doesn't make it irrelevant.

Which non raid encounters would you say high DPS is essential to a successful group?

[Nycon43]

Never said anything about "essential". But dps 100% matters.

[Ghost of Starman]

I thought Shamwowi had some decent logical takes on things in previous threads I've read, but this "DPS doesn't matter and isn't important in groups because people don't gear check" take is really dumb and low IQ, to put it bluntly.

What's the purpose of a non-farming group under *ideal* conditions? It would be to maximize XP per hour given time is our constraint. How do you maximize XP flow? by killing faster and minimizing deaths and downtime.

Increased DPS leads to faster killing, and also minimizes deaths by reducing the amount of time the group is taking damage per mob by eliminating them faster, especially if you're fighting casting mobs and can burn through them, for example, before they land an Ice Comet on your tank. The only time DPS is redundant is if you're killing so fast you're able to completely clear whatever area your camping and are forced to wait for repops.

The only support you need is the minimum amount necessary to prevent wipes and death, having too much redundant support / utility can actually lead to more death due to slow kill time combined with mob pops / patrols / etc.

The fact that (most) P99 players aren't complete assholes like many modern gen MMO players and gatekeep based on gear checks is due to a combination of factors, including the lower population leading to higher reputational costs of being a jerk (you can't just random queue for a raid/group like in WoW, you're going to be seeing the same people over and over and they'll remember if you were an ass), less choice of groupmates due to the smaller pop, the average age of players being much higher than a modern game, and the fact that the game isn't *AS* punishing for non-optimal groups as some modern MMOs are.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Ghost of Starman [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I thought Shamwowi had some decent logical takes on things in previous threads I've read, but this "DPS doesn't matter and isn't important in groups because people don't gear check" take is really dumb and low IQ, to put it bluntly.

What's the purpose of a non-farming group under *ideal* conditions? It would be to maximize XP per hour given time is our constraint. How do you maximize XP flow? by killing faster and minimizing deaths and downtime.

Increased DPS leads to faster killing, and also minimizes deaths by reducing the amount of time the group is taking damage per mob by eliminating them faster, especially if you're fighting casting mobs and can burn through them, for example, before they land an Ice Comet on your tank. The only time DPS is redundant is if you're killing so fast you're able to completely clear whatever area your camping and are forced to wait for repops.

The only support you need is the minimum amount necessary to prevent wipes and death, having too much redundant support / utility can actually lead to more death due to slow kill time combined with mob pops / patrols / etc.

The fact that (most) P99 players aren't complete assholes like many modern gen MMO players and gatekeep based on gear checks is due to a combination of factors, including the lower population leading to higher reputational costs of being a jerk (you can't just random queue for a raid/group like in WoW, you're going to be seeing the same people over and over and they'll remember if you were an ass), less choice of groupmates due to the smaller pop, the average age of players being much higher than a modern game, and the fact that the game isn't *AS* punishing for non-optimal groups as some modern MMOs are.

Irrelevant nonsense. The only thing that matters is how people actually play the game. Not how you think it plays on paper. Factually speaking most groups have suboptimal DPS due to class composition and gear. This does not stop players from leveling up efficently. If you don't know this, you don't play the game.

[Allishia]

I still try to stack groups, tank/clr/enc/ my alt I'm lvling [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Keep at 4 max when I'm really trying to ding /nod.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Allishia [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I still try to stack groups, tank/clr/enc/ my alt I'm lvling [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Keep at 4 max when I'm really trying to ding /nod.

Oh yeah, if you run a static or have a group of friends its a lot easier to min/max a group. But most people don't do that for xp groups, at least not in my experience.

Most pickup groups just get what they can. As long as you have a healer, tank, and puller, the group can operate just fine. No gear checks happen, and most mobs have low enough HP for any tank to chew through. A DPS class increases kill speed, but more players in group also reduces XP.

The biggest increase to your kill speed is generally more players, not some hypercarry DPS class. This is because more players means any class can DPS more due to having support. They have less DPS downtime.

That is what I am saying, the increased DPS a mage brings to the table does not generally make up for their lack of utility. A well tuned xp group is not going to bring a pure DPS with no utility. That is a waste of a group slot.