The best bard on the raid should be in the tank group

[WarpathEQ]

In summary every group should have a bard or you're doing it wrong!

I personally prefer battle barding, in the fight, swinging hands, and driving DPS.

Also don't forget about how nice those resist songs are for AoEs when the clerics are hiding around the corner or behind the ledge.

[Nexii]

Originally Posted by 7thGate [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Its hard to tell because the impact of +ATK is hard to parse out and it probably varies a lot by mob AC. My very rough approximation from experience is that Avatar is approximately +10% damage. Epic Bard is about half an Avatar, so guesstimating +25% of a Rogue from boosting a group, then they bring their own melee which is probably like 1/3 of a Rogue. Might be a bit better than that or a bit worse, but likely below a Rogue in total damage added.

Its obviously better to be pumping Rogue DPS vs. cleric mana on a fight like Trak or anything in VP where there's a lot of burst need and the fight is going to be done in 20 seconds. For something like AOW, if you have a 7 minute AOW, your math would indicate 20 CHs, which would be like 15-20 seconds of additional cleric mana for the raid to DPS. Raid is DPSing at 2380 for that time, so you basically do about 35-50k damage from extending the raid's DPS lifetime.

I'm almost positive you don't do 83 dps from boosting the DPS group, that's probably close to top tier rogue performance and I've never seen a non-pet break that level on Avatar (I also don't generally group with rogues running BIS though, I wouldn't be surprised if a BIS rogue could hit that sometimes).

Overall, its probably a shift where on some targets its better, some its worse and some its kind of equivalent-ish. Also really depends on how much DPS vs. cleric mana you have going on.

Yea bards don't boost rogues enough for it to be worth it. 5% more dps isn't better than approx 25-30% more mana over the course of the fight

assuming 3600 start mana and 1400 regen from c2/potg/gob, and another 1400 from bard (20/tick*10*7mins)

If it was a little closer it'd be worth it though, because at 7 minutes usually a lot of your dps is dead anyways from tank swaps. Good bumping and getting DI procs do the most. Losing even 1 dps is a bigger impact than what group a bard goes in

[Ciderpress]

Bards shouldn't exist. They just piss everyone off. Everyone gets annoyed when you swarm kite cause it takes forever, you usually suck in groups, and I don't like dealing with your songs that are always fading and sharing icons with actual good buffs that I want to keep. I don't think a raid was ever won or lost due to the presence of a bard. Kiting mobs around on raids is basically a time saving exploit so that doesn't count either.

[Duik]

Bard bad then? All bard bad. You been grouped wiff a good one ever? Like one that augments the current group structure?
There is also a typing messaging element to the UI you know. So like msg them saying can you MR DS mana pump and haste only please. Mana and MR 1st. Others are just cream. For example.
This is from a grouping perspective. Dont raid leaders delegate shit thats needed?

[Ripqozko]

Originally Posted by 7thGate [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Eh, Vindi's average DKP spend is higher than a decent chunk of the raid targets in the game in my experience. We killed Vindi 136 times last year in Sanctum and hes still a 50-60 dkp average spend; people want this drops. In terms of DKP value paid out its like 40 Vindis to a Vulak for us. Its just spread out improving 40 people's alts/low attendance mains vs. upgrading 3 dedicated players.

I bet if "All the Vindis" was a draft option, it would go early round 2 most of the time. 21 Vindis is pretty decent value vs. a single NToV dragon, even if its not quite competitive with top tier targets.

in what guild? bp's go for 1 dkp in riot

[branamil]

"Best" bard

the one who can press 1, 2, 5, 6 instead of 1, 3, 4, 7. Incredible skill!!!!!1

[Toxigen]

Originally Posted by Ciderpress [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't think a raid was ever won or lost due to the presence of a bard.

Gore / Fear / VP say hi

[Toxigen]

oh and PoG / AoW too

ciderpress confirmed shitter

[aussenseiter]

Originally Posted by Ripqozko [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

in what guild? bp's go for 1 dkp in riot

You agree that "draft all the Vindis" is a terrible choice, yes?

[7thGate]

Originally Posted by Ripqozko [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

in what guild? bp's go for 1 dkp in riot

Sanctum. Median vindi bp going for 125 dkp, 60 boots, 40 earring. For comparison cleric sky neck median was 25, my massive heartwood thorn was 850 and the most expensive item we've had was a 1300 dkp Ruby tear.