Project 1999

Go Back   Project 1999 > Blue Community > Blue Server Chat

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-25-2020, 08:23 PM
Duckwalk Duckwalk is offline
Sarnak

Duckwalk's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 351
Default Camp dispute, GM intervention, and punishment of rule violations

With the departure of Llandris the general consensus seems to be that enforcement of rules violations is significantly less likely. Moving forward what process should players use to address rule violations and what type of action or response should players expect from Guides?

I ask because I was involved in an interesting interaction in Sirens Grotto last night and over a two to three hour time period we received no response from /petition. Perhaps there are alternate more effective measures players should be taking advantage of to address issues that arise?

At approximately 11pm CST a small guild group consisting of myself on my shaman, a monk, cleric, and enchanter entered the zone to find it apparently empty and moved to the safe ledge near the temple with the intention of pulling icy servants and hopefully spawning shimmering sea spirits. Subsequent /who generally showed between zero and one or two additional players as they apparently logged in and out or repeatedly gated then re-entered the zone.

We started pulling icy servants from the tunnels underneath the temple and after a pull or two were informed we had apparently trained a group claiming they had already been down there and were camping fellspine and his placeholder.

An investigation revealed an enchanter named Mezmerrelda, and a cleric, Nubslice. Nubslice was parked on the ledge directly underneath the temple and Mezmerrelda was factioned and swimming around the tunnels lulling mobs. They claimed that we were "taking their mobs" and by not camping down in the tunnels and rather pulling mobs out and on to the safeledge we were "creating a zone disruption and training them". Apparently one of our pulls resulted in the death of a monk, Camoan, who Nubkin was later seen logging between. We apologized, rezzed him and after that entered into a dialog regarding proper procedure and claiming camps.

My first question has to do with this issue. Does a group that is not actively killing mobs or only killing a single placeholder away from its spawn point have the right to park themselves in the path or near other mobs, effectively blocking access to those mobs under threat of being petitioned for training? Nubkin was no where near the fellspine placeholder and the only action he apparently took the vast majority of the time was to resurrect the corpse(s) of Mezmerrelda who had amassed some 6-8 over the course of "camping" fellspine.

Despite that initial interaction we moved on and instead focused on killing the mobs in the upper temple area. At about 11:30-12:00am(?) Fellspine apparently spawned and over two hours Mezmerrelda worked to calm and single pull it to an area where he could kill it. This process involved many more deaths and rezzes by Nubslice who still sat apparently AFK aside from occasionally casting resurrection when Mezmerrelda dragged a corpse to him. Eventually, Mezmerrelda was able to pull a charmed Fellspine out, ironically directly underneath the ledge where we had made our camp, and across the zone in the same manner he had previously chastised us for doing. Mezmerrelda broke the charm and slowed, while Nubslice who had finally moved out from underneath the ledge under temple healed. When aggro transferred to Nubslice, Mezmerrelda logged out and back in on Slowfat (Fatslow), a shaman. The shaman took aggro and Nubslice logged out and back in on Camoan, a monk. The two fought Fellspine down to flee range who, un-rooted, aggroed mermaids and icy servants, killing the shaman and monk and training and killing our group.

After recovering we noticed noticed that Nubslice seemed to have abandoned the attempt and we informed the zone we were going to be pulling from the tunnels underneath temple and to watch out. The only people in zone were the four of us and Mezmerrelda, the factioned enchanter. During one of the pulls of the icy servants Sorba, a lvl 60 enchanter, either logged in down underneath the temple or zoned in and ran past us without us noticing. He accused us of training him despite the pull starting before he was in zone or anywhere near the area we were fighting. He gated, camped, or capped after accusing of us "almost killing him" and did not re-enter the zone. During this period while we were clearing mobs in the path to Fellspine, Mezmerrelda, charmed and dragged Fellspine to another area of the zone. When we attempted to pull Fellspine, we found he was not at his spawn point and eventually we learned Mezmerrelda was chain mesmerizing Fellspine in another part of the temple.

My second question regards the ability of a player to "lock down" a mob they have no intention or ability to kill. While we waited amused at the truly epic amounts of neckbeardian desperation on display we debated among our group the potential resolution of such a situation. As Fellspine is not a FTE or raid mob you can't be accused of stalling it but at the same time it would seem that the ability to claim a mob or camp is contingent upon an ability to hold or kill said mob/camp. Mezmerrelda clearly was concerned about maintaining her faction in zone and by extension her ability to move within the zone freely. He partner was not present nor did she make any attempt to charm something else with which to kill Fellspine. It appeared purely an attempt to deny us the mob he had failed to kill for the prior several hours.

Eventually, our amusement caught the attention of a fellow guildmate who, with a similarly faction enchanter, found Mezmerrelda and Fellspine. We speculated how long he could keep it mesmerized and sure enough after watching for another 5 minutes, Mezmerrelda camped out and Fellspine began to path back to his spawn point. Recognizing the opportunity our enchanter charmed it and brought out front of the temple where we started killing it. With Fellspine at 60% and dropping, Mezmerrelda appeared at the front of the temple and tashed pulled the entirety of the temple on top of our group killing everyone.

Had this act been caught on fraps, the issue would be a lot less interesting but as it was not it brings me to my third question; is a player's only recourse now to fraps every encounter as protection from accusation or to enforce the punishment of violations? I honestly, dont know what else we could have done without recording the Fellspine attempt. Multiple petitions were lodged hours earlier when Mezmerrelda was threatening a petition for training and we hoped a petition would clarify the issue relating to camps and blocking access to mobs the other group had no intention to killing. No response came then. No response came after we were obviously and intentionally trained while killing Fellspine. And I expect no response will come despite petitions from multiple sources (some unguilded passive bystanders caught up in the absurdity of Mezmerrelda chain mezzing a mob for an extended period of time out of pure spite). So have we re-entered a wild west era on Blue99? Will armies of monks and control of resources being decided by the most persistent rule breaks win the day?

Anyways, these are the questions I pose to you Project99. Maybe we were completely in the wrong? I thought we went out of the way to avoid training people who unnecessarily put themselves in the path of a pull purely to prevent other players from accessing the mobs near the PH they were "camping". Surely, there are many people who would have sniped Fellspine immediately after it was up and damn anyone who got in the way.

I debated whether to put this in Rants and Flames but honestly I don't intend for this to be a rant but rather a discussion on interaction of camp rules and proper expectations or avenues for addressing issues with GMs. And although I've made no effort to spare shame at what I consider a pathetic situation, I really the central theme of this post is directed at the issued raised regarding player interaction and GM involvement. If it mattered to Mezmerrelda that much I hope he got his mob. At the end of the day we logged and left Mezmerrelda chain mezzing Fellspine in a random corner of the zone.

What say you P99?

This is to the best of my recollection, if Mezmerrelda, Nubslice, or anyone else involved has more accurate logs I welcome them.
  #2  
Old 02-25-2020, 09:37 PM
Phuzz Phuzz is offline
Aviak


Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 62
Default

Dead bodies don't hold camps
  #3  
Old 02-25-2020, 09:45 PM
Vallaen Vallaen is offline
Kobold


Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 107
Default

TL'DR
  #4  
Old 02-25-2020, 09:48 PM
Duckwalk Duckwalk is offline
Sarnak

Duckwalk's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 351
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phuzz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Dead bodies don't hold camps
The claim was that Nubslice the cleric who was sitting well away from Fellspine/PHs was "holding the camp" as he never died and really never did anything but rez bodies dragged to him.

But thats one of the issues we debated. Does setting up slightly closer to mobs but in the pull path of another group entitle you to block that other groups access to mobs?
  #5  
Old 02-25-2020, 09:59 PM
galach galach is offline
Server GM

galach's Avatar

Join Date: May 2019
Location: Right behind you invisible
Posts: 6,473
Default

I'm not on blue much anymore, but I am constantly dealing with camp disputes on green. If you want to post a concise version with any proof in the petition forum I will look at it.
  #6  
Old 02-25-2020, 10:22 PM
MarauderOHHYEAH MarauderOHHYEAH is offline
Kobold


Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 115
Default

I think that is one of his questions Galach… is obs/fraps the only "proof" that is acceptable now? do we need to record every second of our time on p99 just incase something like this happens?
  #7  
Old 02-25-2020, 10:25 PM
galach galach is offline
Server GM

galach's Avatar

Join Date: May 2019
Location: Right behind you invisible
Posts: 6,473
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarauderOHHYEAH [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
I think that is one of his questions Galach… is obs/fraps the only "proof" that is acceptable now? do we need to record every second of our time on p99 just incase something like this happens?
Encounter logs only show so much. If I see someone killing the same PH over and over again and then I see a KS, it's obvious. However, everything is not as simple. Logs can be edited and manipulated to hide proof. I prefer to see video if I don't witness it myself.
  #8  
Old 02-26-2020, 12:03 AM
BlackBellamy BlackBellamy is offline
Planar Protector

BlackBellamy's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: At the barricades.
Posts: 2,813
Default

Quote:
Multiple petitions were lodged hours earlier when Mezmerrelda was threatening a petition for training and we hoped a petition would clarify the issue relating to camps and blocking access to mobs the other group had no intention to killing. No response came then
Jesus Christ. You sent MULTIPLE pre-emptive petitions in order to "clarify" things in case someone else sent in a subsequent petition because you wanted to establish your side first. And then you wonder why no one answers petitions for hours? Is it possible people have no time for hypothetical situations and prefer to just deal with the situations after they occur instead of rubbish like this?

Now this follows a 1500 word forum petition in order to clarify this again? Sigh.

What you should have done is just kept playing and put the other people on ignore if they're saying things that upset you. Then if the GM shows up, he'll explain to you what you have done wrong. If he doesn't show up, you're good.
  #9  
Old 02-26-2020, 12:59 AM
solleks solleks is offline
Planar Protector

solleks's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,115
Default

If not drugs possibly try drugs
  #10  
Old 02-26-2020, 01:54 AM
Duckwalk Duckwalk is offline
Sarnak

Duckwalk's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 351
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackBellamy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Jesus Christ. You sent MULTIPLE pre-emptive petitions in order to "clarify" things in case someone else sent in a subsequent petition because you wanted to establish your side first. And then you wonder why no one answers petitions for hours? Is it possible people have no time for hypothetical situations and prefer to just deal with the situations after they occur instead of rubbish like this?

Now this follows a 1500 word forum petition in order to clarify this again? Sigh.

What you should have done is just kept playing and put the other people on ignore if they're saying things that upset you. Then if the GM shows up, he'll explain to you what you have done wrong. If he doesn't show up, you're good.
I think you've taken the wrong impression from that single line. He said he had petitioned us and I stated great, lets get a GM out here to clarify the issue. But that issue, appropriate use of GM intervention is a central issue I wanted to clarify. I personally don't think asking a GM for a ruling in order to avoid future conflict is out of line but thats just me.
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:56 AM.


Everquest is a registered trademark of Daybreak Game Company LLC.
Project 1999 is not associated or affiliated in any way with Daybreak Game Company LLC.
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.