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  #31  
Old 11-10-2023, 04:27 PM
Ennewi Ennewi is offline
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https://dbsanfte.github.io/eq-archiv...msg-125386.txt

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From: "Eritaana" <eritaanaNoSpamPlease@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Bards ditching aggro
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Quote:
"Lance Berg" <emporer@dejazzd.com> wrote in message
news:3D12ACE2.254EF5BB@dejazzd.com...
> OK, so I've got soloing down pretty well as a bard... but
> I also duo quite often with my friends alt monk. Trouble
> is, monks are great at ditching aggro... but I"m not.
>
> Monk just plain cannot get a mob off me after I've
> charmed it, and has some trouble getting other mobs
> off me.
>
> Is there some song I already have that could be helping
> with this? Or am I going to get one in the future?
>
> Who knew the cleric ability I'd be missing most would
> be Atone? Or even a bloody Root?
>
> LLyric
> 35 bard
>
> Bergh Brelltender
> 59 cleric
Quote:
Bards do get a song to reduce agro, but not until the mid 50's. You could
try twinking with a symphonic saber, but again I dont think that procs until
50.

Some songs generate more agro than others - its part of a bards growing up
to learn which songs will keep you alive, and which will kill you (depending
on group/party members abilities).

If you get agro, turn off attack for a second. Take a step back, so the monk
is closest to the mob. Do not sing, attack, or even look at the mob funny
until it has switched back to the monk.

I am presuming that you are getting agro after singing one (or more) of the
following - dots, slows, or heal songs. They all get you pretty high on the
hate list. Try to limit your line up to one of each unless you have a
taunter in the group - and even then, just be careful.


Unless you have done a lot of twinking, bards are still pretty fragile at
that age. If all else fails, you always have selos...

Eritaana
Level 56
Half Elven Bard
Vanguard of Norrath
Seventh Hammer
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  #32  
Old 11-10-2023, 10:58 PM
Ennewi Ennewi is offline
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https://dbsanfte.github.io/eq-archiv...-msg-92150.txt

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Ok all, I'm now level 35 bard. This is my highest level character, so I
don't know the high end game which is where my questions lie...

First of all, there was a thread awhile back about bards that eventually
trailed off to bards pulling, namely in planes. I've grouped with others
recently who claim to have high level characters and never seen bards pull
at higher levels. True, this game is what you make it out to be, i.e. a
little imagination can go a long way, but I would like a little
clarification on this. To me it seems to be a waste to send the bard for
pulling, as all the casters want their manasong, and bards tend to create
high aggro so I end up pulling a little more than I care to sometimes.


Other question is simple. I'm using instruments a little more now during
battle. I'm not sure how I like that as opposed to weapons. I recently
grouped with a couple of more experienced players that claim I will soon not
be using weapons at all. How true is this? I was in a group last night
with no healer and used a lute (no magic instruments yet) to improve hymn of
restoration and chords of dissonance. I kept all but the tank full, and the
tank nearly full of hp and I do either 30 or 31/tick for damage with CoD.
Add Chains and mana and it seemed a good combination. I was verbally (well,
chat anyways) assaulted by the tank for not having weapons drawn. Screw it,
his problem. But my question is basically how true is this "I won't be
using weapons soon" claim?

Either way is fine by me, but as I'm not a twink and not exactly rich, I
need to upgrade equipment wisely. If I won't be using weapons much, I'm not
dumping tons of PP into them.

TIA for any help,
SEAN...


https://web.archive.org/web/20020220...cID=1640.topic

Quote:
Akbar BelAkesh
Cyber Pimp
(2/4/02 1:49:33 pm)
Reply
Community Supporter
Re: RANT: Being a bard
My experience with the bards I've seen while playing my alt, they REALLY need to learn to control their aggro better. These bards rush in like idiots playing songs with a pack of mobs there. They get aggro almost immediately and instead of charming or trying to do and CC they TANK.

The healer then has to heal them which aggro's the healer and blows a ton of mana.

If you get a pack of mobs and the bard isn't going to CC, they'd almost be more useful doing straight melee or ( you guessed it ) sitting their butts down and playing c2 song.

For god sakes don't play a AE heal song when you have 3-4 live mobs and the tank is trying to maintain aggro of all of them.

The last bard I had in my group was in CT. We'd pull 3-4 at a time. The bard would move in, get aggro almost immediatly, then we'd all watch his HP drop. The healer would heal him and the mobs would then aggro the healer. Of course the bard doesn't do any mezzing or charming... why? because it generates to much aggro... go figure.

So the bard dies. He run's back from FP, loots his corpse, and asks to rejoin the group. I tell him, "you can rejoin if you don't get hit". He's like ok... so then he rejoins and what's the first thing he does? LOL. All the mobs jump him. I refuse to heal him and he dies. He runs back from FP. First pull back, he aggro's all the mobs and dies again! After that he just gave up and left and the group did great.

Fast forward a month or so. I'm in CT again with a group of myself and a cleric. A bard sends me a tell, "Got room for me and a rogue?". I tell him, "Well yeah, but I'm a bit leary about inviting a bard, ya'll tend to draw to much aggro" ... he says, "lol, so?" ... well.. that was the end of that.

Just like any class, if your fellow ranger/bard/enchanter/clerics etc suck, that will shape peoples experiences. It will make people less willing to let you try things unless they know and trust you.

In otherwords, don't rant about the people telling you to sit back there and play the clarity song. Lets get a rant going about all the boneheaded bards that diminished the trust players might have in you.

Ak
Quote:
Kinoel
Cyber Pimp
(2/5/02 11:04:48 pm)
Reply Re: RANT: Being a bard
A lot of ppl make bards thinking they can tank cuz they wear Plate. They never even thought about it. Fact is, we dont tank any better than a ranger. Yeah, we get more AC than they do, but they get more HP than Bards do.

When there's a multi pull, it's automatic that anything the tank doesnt have a good aggro on will jump the bard if he's singing. So to all twink bards out there, if you think there's going to be a multi pull, shut your yap. And CC IS part of a bard's life, dont like it? You better look to make another twink, like a monk or a ranger.

Bards are one of the hardest classes to play (Note, I didnt say THE hardest). They can do a shitload of stuff, but it's not always useful to do it, you gotta know your songs VERY well (and rare are the songs that are just better versions of another one) and you get to carry around a load of stuff. For example, I carry around 5 weapons on me at all times, and there are 4 more that I want, the instruments, CC gear (very important till the high 50s).

I see everyone making bard twinks around, and I get to wonder how many will actually make it to their mid 50s :lol
Ryolas Songdivine
54 lvl Master of the Jig
"That's thirty minutes away. I'll be there in ten." --The Wolf (Pulp Fiction)

Kinoel Feuerfaust
55 lvl Glass Cannon
"Guess you broke into the wrong God damn rec room, didn't ya!" --Burt Gummer (Tremors)

Quintessence of Honour
Lanys T'Vyl
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  #33  
Old 11-11-2023, 12:16 AM
Ennewi Ennewi is offline
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https://web.archive.org/web/20020221...ID=10439.topic

Quote:
Daveon Silverstring
Adventurer of Underfoot
Posts: 118
(1/21/02 4:40:57 pm)
Reply
Community Supporter

Re: Question Concerning Bard Melee (Again)
If you're worried about aggro from melee, you probably shouldn't be. You are not likely**, by melee alone, get to the top of the hate list in any group with a monk, warrior, ranger, paladin, or shadow knight in it (if it's just casters, you, and a rogue, you might get to the top if the rogue keeps using that ability to lower aggro). You just won't under normal circumstances (even with a 110pt proc).

Now when you start weaving songs in with your melee, and if you play high hate songs, you might have to worry. But know which songs aggro more than others, and just take a step back if you aggroed too much. Note: manasong is low hate [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The only time you really have to worry about hate is in situations when you have adds and your songs are the first things the creatures notice (no one is tanking them), so they come and attack you. So you've got a mez or a charm memed for that, right? Or let the enchanter do her job. Being a plate class, you should have enough AC to deal with a few hits from a couple adds. Just make sure the buffer(s) aren't forgetting to give you AC and HP buffs...

BTW, I'd go for Wristsnapper (lol, snappah) / Flameweaver combo as well. The extra str/sta from the Centi LS isn't going to do squat for a bard...(heh, you might hit for 1 more damage, and you might have 10 more hps, lol)

** I said not likely...mostly because there's been times when I was first to assist, and I hit for full damage on my first couple hits, and had a 110pt proc thrown in there, where I was at the top of the list. But a couple seconds later, the warrior's taunt kicked in...

BTW, all bets are off if you're just pairing up with a hybrid. If the hybrid isn't casting spells to maintain hate, you're going to get it easy with your melee plus songs.

--Daveon Silverstring
--Nocturne Mist

https://web.archive.org/web/20030722...topic&index=15

Quote:
Moya Starsinger
Registered User
Posts: 2
(8/13/02 12:57 pm)
Reply Re: bard vs. chanter
I'm a 60 bard with a 52 enchanter so I have seen both sides. As a bard, I am typically backup to the enchanters on a raid. In that case, I only mez if the enchanter is dead or getting eaten typically. I don't if they are beating on me, the enchanter is the primary CC and I don't interfere unless I am afraid they are going to bite it. In the enchanter role, I love the bards as long as they know what they are doing. I have grouped with one that was doing AE damage and not paying attention, that irked me but I eventually straightened her out......

As a bard, I have seen enchanters that appreciated me pulling Mob01 off of them when they were being resisted and some that harassed me for it. If they harass me, then next time I wait for them to bite it, then I mez the mob before it gets to the cleric.........Typically, if there is an enchanter, I don't do whatever they are. I use the warcry to boost haste over the cap because the enchanter is going to get them to the cap probably and just boost Attack/str and then cantata usually, maybe a ds thrown in sometimes.

Bards are great enhancers and actually as good as another melee in most situations. We can pull, we can backup CC, we are downtime reducers and can help the tanks that are there kill faster. In addition, bards are melee and help kill the mobs faster. Don't be so quick to dismiss a bard as unimportant in a group or less useful than a tank because you can't see all the damage we are doing. Calculate the healing/mana regen from Cantata that stacks with everything, the 25% haste over cap that we can add, the pluses to attack, str, and the damage shield damage and then come back and talk to me. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] I think you will be suprised.

Moya Starsinger
60 bard
Esmeralde Greymist
52 enchanter
Quote:
valencia
Registered User
Posts: 7
(10/26/02 9:16 am)
Reply bards
I love to have a good bard in my group. when i get high on the agro list many times the bard is the only one that can tick that mob off more than me, with a agro grabbing mezz, or i have a mob beating on me, he charms its no longer hurting me. i think one of my best bard experiences, was when i raided chardok royals. we stormed the kind and us 2 enchanters held the mezzes. when we were OOM, the bards took over and picked up where we left off. perfect team work. as far as enchanters being teritorial i as a fellow enchanter have ran into this. i hate to say it but it drives me nuts to. where if i am on buff debuff nuk duty and she is on mezzes. but i see a cleric geting beat on and the mezzing chanter not getting that mob. i can take the 2.5 seconds to type out a wake up message to her, and hope my stun saves the cleric . or i can take those 2.5 seconds to have my mezz casted and the cleric an d group/raid safe. i have had to do this a few times where the other enchanter with us was either having a bad day or was clueless, but i wont stand there and not use my full ine of abilities when teh time calls for it. my take on it? the mobs were mezzed. no one died. we got what we were after be it safetly, loot or experience. so why are we complaining if someone tossed out a mezz. this isnt a competition. we are much more effective when we work together. i know as the mezzing chanter if i have a few extra mobs and the other chanter wants to grab one for a charm or a mezz or to get it undercontrol faster, i will be happy, not feeling steped on. as long as she lets me know what she is mezzing and she doesnt take it upon herself to do all my mezzes, i dont mind some good old fashioned teamwork

/endrant
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  #34  
Old 11-11-2023, 12:23 PM
Sonolin Sonolin is offline
Aviak


Join Date: Nov 2023
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Thanks for compiling all this evidence. I don't play a bard but wish you luck in getting this fixed.
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  #35  
Old 11-25-2023, 12:22 PM
Ennewi Ennewi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonolin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Thanks for compiling all this evidence. I don't play a bard but wish you luck in getting this fixed.

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]


https://web.archive.org/web/20040904...id=1178&page=2

Quote:
Re: Question for the Devs
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Archimede999
Journeyman
Posts: 22
Registered: 07-14-2004

Viewed 78 times
1 rating - 5.0 average


So I guess this thread has slightly degenerated. It's as I explained above, there are two camps. People who agree that there was
a significant change in the aggro generated by our chants, and people who don't think bards should get aggro.

I do not care whether or not people think bards should be able to tank.

All I want to know, is very very simple.

Is it a bug,


or

Is it a nerf.



very very simple. It's been over a month now.

'Stuce
08-31-2004 09:15 AM
Quote:
Re: Question for the Devs
Options
xanti
Journeyman
Posts: 26
Registered: 04-28-2004

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If you go back in Time, about 2 Months, you'll see bards that can hold aggro in Kitegroups. Thats the only thing we want back.
09-02-2004 02:46 AM
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  #36  
Old 11-28-2023, 05:54 PM
Ennewi Ennewi is offline
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https://web.archive.org/web/20011230...ML/007619.html

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Gello
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Posts: 232
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 12-17-2001 10:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gello Click Here to Email Gello Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Mistmoore yard, kurns tower, sarnak fort in LoIO, maybe paludal. Try having the bard sing lullaby during the ae. That's a pretty big taunt and has a side effect of "kinda" being an ae mez. (Tho very resistable) I forget what level bards get the ae slow but that's a decent taunt too and has an obvious use in ae. (It's high 20's I think) You want the plate-wearing bard tanking everything so you're free to heal the bard and the casters should they get aggro. Mage rain spells I understand don't generate a lot of aggro. Wizard will likely be the one you have the most trouble keeping alive. But being proactive and getting the bard to keep aggro can assure some decent pulls.
Don't listen to the people saying a group can't ae without an enchanter. It's a low 20's group for crying out loud. :P Even then, we were ae'ing in the grey before the nerf with just me (60 cleric) and a 57 wizard as the only two in the group who could cast an ae spell. Just test the waters a bit and you'll be fine. My nec has done ae in crystal caverns and cazic without an enchanter before. Granted, an enchanter will let you double the size of the pulls but it's still doable.

When your ae group gets to upper 20's, 29 for wizards, hit cazic courtyard. Great ae spot. You'd think paw would be great too, but the levels there vary too much and the number of casters make it tough to gather all the mobs together before your group has taken a serious beating. Once you get to 34, especially ae'ers, hit crystal caverns.
Quote:
Candail Delour
Junior Member
Posts: 3
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 12-20-2001 02:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Candail Delour Click Here to Email Candail Delour Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
can kite them, heh. make sure everyone has sow or whatever and take turns aoe nuking.
or, since you have a bard, can have him/her mez them for a minuit or so to accumulate aggro then kite them with selo while everyone aoe nukes. i leveled my wizard alot doing this with a bard and a mage in lake of ill omen through the 20's. also leveled my bard through the 20's this way.
[This message has been edited by Candail Delour (edited 12-20-2001).]

https://dbsanfte.github.io/eq-archiv...-msg-90795.txt

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"James Grahame" <jamesgrahame@shaw.ca> wrote:

> Like it mattered whether he was or not. My guild took him down with a
>bard tanking and three Manaburn wizards
, just for kicks. It'll be
>interesting to see if Manaburn ever gets the 100 K limit applied to it or
>not like the Banes have.

If I had to guess I'd say Verant is going to add a flag to certain mobs
about whether or not manaburn affects them or to what degree. Right now
a group of 4-5 wizards can solo a 32k dragon. Even less if they happen
to crit on a manaburn. I wouldn't be surprised to see it have a limit of
something like 2k on certain mobs in the near future. While probably
being fairly balanced againt Luclin ubers or even ToV dragons, it's a
bit overpowering against pre-Velious ubers.

https://web.archive.org/web/20021119...picID=20.topic

Quote:
Turraslo
NooB Visitor
Posts: 26
(3/1/02 8:36:17 pm)
Reply AOE Groups
I was talking to my friend irl and she said her dad and his guildies were using a strategy that surprisingly I have never heard of. It was called an AOE group and the basic gist of it is as follows....
I) Group- you need 2 enchanters 1 bard 1 cleric (w/ res stick preferably [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] ) and 2 wizards. i suppose any type of char that can AOE nuke is good but wizzies=best. (keep in mind thats AOE not AE and there is a difference. AE is what druids and wizzies use in quad kitting AOE is the equivalent of upheaval where it goes out from you...)
II) Starting- You have the bard run around the zone w/ an aggro song on. don't worry about too many you want as many as you can get...the way she described it they had 47 guys one time! (and this is at lvl 59) he pulls basically all the mobs in the zone w/i reason [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] and then you have the enchanters AOE stun...when that happens the nukers go to work nuke nuke etc. cleric keeps em healed and if the enchanters do their job no one dies.
III) Finishing- As you can tell this would bring AWESOME exp and i know it works cuz he punched through lvls 58 59 and 60 in a matter of 2 weeks....AND you get more loot this way too so it's also pretty lucrative

i didn't believe this could be done till i saw it w/ my own eyes and it almost made me wanna start a wizard...it certainly however made my jaw drop [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Turr
(47 guys!!)
Edited by: Turraslo at: 3/1/02 8:36:46 pm

https://web.archive.org/web/20020627....shtml?id=7381

Quote:
Mini ring of Fire Reply... By: Galathor,
2 posts
Posted @ Thu, May 9th 9:12 PM 2002 Score: Decent[3.00]
Ok you have 1 person stand on the platform and he is rooted. You then kill the spawns before they reach the platform, we had a bard ae dding to get agro, and you keep on killing until the named pops, during this time the room will pop probably 5 times, it seemed to be on a 6 minute timer, and pop speeds for the skeletons involved in the quest will increase as the battle goes on, the lvls of the pops will also increase. Btw if you knock a pop into the wall it despawns it it didn't seem to interupt the quest so if you don't want to worry about killing just keep knocking them into the wall until the named comes. After 30 min of killing (i was in the exp group and got a blue)the grimling high priest transforms into the named mob a 63. At this point things became chaotic for us we only had 2 groups of 50 to 60's and some pets were out that screwed up mezzes so by the time i got the adds mezzed half the raid was down including the MT and we only had 1 cleric to begin with. So the ST started killing when the mob was at 75%, we had a 60 necro, 59 dru, 60 cleric, 56 war, 56 bard, and i was the 56 ench keeping the adds mezzed. We were able to kill it, the war was dead, but the bard tanked it from 5 percent, and it dropped a 8int 35mana 35hp hat. I know others on the server have killed it and gotten 60 luclin spells so we are going to do it until we get a few. Hope that helps.

https://web.archive.org/web/20031024...topic&index=20

Quote:
Enklum
Registered User
Posts: 114
(8/12/03 5:55 am)
Reply
Re: Before I waste AA points...
Concerning aggro, a good drum and 4 stacking DoTs is usualy the solution ;-)

Muse Belladone, "The ManaKitty", Forgotten Nemesis
Quote:
Larraque Meleagrance
Radical Dreamer
Posts: 1922
(8/12/03 9:03 am)
Reply Re: Before I waste AA points...
Quote:
Concerning aggro, a good drum and 4 stacking DoTs is usualy the solution ;-)


Better off using 3 dots, and largo's absonant binding, if you need to be a bard tank. (Largo's is the level 51 slow movement, AC reduction, snare song)

Not that I ever bard tank.

But I'd think using a Battle Drummer's Main Gauche (or Singing Short Sword, obviously) would be better than all but the best of drums (Thunderous of Karana). The ratio is 1.8 (same as the singing short sword), and it does 8 less damage per 10 seconds per dot than my Draconic Fellowship Drum. And if I'm in hand to hand, the damage done by the main gauche is better than the damage done by my fists by at least 30. And I'm sure it does more aggro.
Last edited by Ennewi; 11-28-2023 at 06:02 PM..
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  #37  
Old 11-30-2023, 09:25 PM
Zuranthium Zuranthium is offline
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What exactly are you arguing Bard aggro should be? Do you have any kind of goal in mind, and for each specific type of song?
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Old 11-30-2023, 10:25 PM
Rygar Rygar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
What exactly are you arguing Bard aggro should be? Do you have any kind of goal in mind, and for each specific type of song?
For now I think it is fairly obvious to just reverse the cap they put on bard song aggro the last patch or 2 ago, as it is proven beyond a reasonable doubt to be a 2004+ change far out of era.
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Old 12-02-2023, 12:31 AM
long.liam long.liam is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rygar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
For now I think it is fairly obvious to just reverse the cap they put on bard song aggro the last patch or 2 ago, as it is proven beyond a reasonable doubt to be a 2004+ change far out of era.
Do you have any official EQ patch notes as evidence that bard aggro was changed post 2004? Otherwise this entire thread is just a bunch of random nonsense pulled from the dark web that can filed under inconclusive.
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Old 12-02-2023, 01:20 AM
Ennewi Ennewi is offline
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Originally Posted by long.liam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Do you have any official EQ patch notes as evidence that bard aggro was changed post 2004? Otherwise this entire thread is just a bunch of random nonsense pulled from the dark web that can filed under inconclusive.
Always the same comments from you. It's getting old, as is this thread. Last post from here on out. Anyone else wants to contribute something worth reading, go for it.
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