"Equal Opportunity Loot" (EOL) System Proposal

[Swish]

Can't count the times I said "not classic" in this thread but I'm sure there's more coming.

[Nirgon]

Things that have to exist because of the extreme toxicity of blue players

- nerfed sea furies
- rooted dragons
- /list

Mind you, because of blue not red...

Shoulda made ToV and sea fury island PVP arena areas

[ZiggyTheMuss]

Originally Posted by Nirgon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Things that have to exist because of the extreme toxicity of blue players

- nerfed sea furies
- rooted dragons
- /list

Mind you, because of blue not red...

Shoulda made ToV and sea fury island PVP arena areas

Add the AOE limit as well to this

[YendorLootmonkey]

If the have-nots become the haves, how ever will the original haves get their validation?

[Nirgon]

High amounts of effort are required for some things

Traumatizing, I know

[nenja]

Originally Posted by ZiggyTheMuss [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You seriously just suggested they create instances for loot.

I suppose that's a way of looking at it.

Originally Posted by Nisrak [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sorry OP, but there are some major issues with your proposal:

- If I make a level 1, follow around some lvl 50, and tag everything he kills, then I get a copy of all of his loot?

- This removes the incentive of ever grouping or staying at a single camp. Think of a rogue sneaking between camps and tagging every named just as the group kills it. He can essentially get the loot of 10 camps at once!

- How would you tune the drop rate? Base it off of 6 people killing it? 10 people? For something like manastone, you will likely have 50+ people "looting" it every spawn.

- If you normalize it based on the number of people looting, then this is exactly the same as just giving it to a /random person on the list if it drops.

By the way, this is not how WoW loot works (at least not when I've ever played).

I'll try to address each of your points.

First, is this different from people running level 1 or equally low characters to a camp spot and looting an item on their "twink"? I don't think you can deny this happens currently

Second, the low level player is not getting a "copy of all loot". It is chance based per character. It's entirely possible neither end up with loot.

Third, it does not remove the "incentive" of staying at a camp because nothing is guaranteed. And is this really different from players you've grouped with who won the /roll on an item and then immediately left group? If not, consider yourself lucky. It's happened to me plenty under the current system.

My proposal that "anyone who is able to loot the corpse before it decays" was me being proactive in addressing those who would complain that such a system would disallow them from being able to run their level 1 twinks or alts to loot an item if that character was not able to be present for the kill (e.g. You log on a healer, because it's needed, but your main is a tank or damage).

Tuning would need to be considered, obviously. If you want to say 50+ people will be looting a body (e.g. large raid), then maybe we start there and tune accordingly. I think it's safe to assume raid targets would have a larger number (100+) of people looting than one-off dungeon named (10-20?) and therefore NPCs could be lumped into categories (e.g. Raid boss targets vs dungeon group targets).

Part of the intent is to encourage players to work together rather than against each other. Think about the cluster that TOV or Tunare are when 3-4 guilds are all trying to get the same bosses. That wouldn't even be a thing with this system, since they could all work together. Or ST, VP, etc., etc.

In WOW, it looks like this is called Personal Loot and was introduced with Mists of Pandaria. It removed the need for guilds to have to deal with DKP systems, tracking, decay, etc. and complaints of bias. I can assure you that no one complained about the Personal Loot system and became the default for most.

Originally Posted by Evia [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

OP I can appreciate all the hard work and effort that went into this proposal, certainly. I just think you might be missing the quirky appeal of EQ. The thing is classic EQ loot system is definitely flawed, yet in these flaws is where the ‘magic’ or whatever you wanna call it, is. You change the loot system like that and we’re just tip toeing ourselves right down the same road we eventually went towards with Luclin/PoP and onward. What makes a manastone worth as much as it is/will be is the fact it gets removed... but also because it takes real effort and luck to snag one.

The competition is fierce and not everyone is going to get one and THATS THE POINT, That’s why ya’ll neckbearding in the first place. If everyone could just prance down NP to loot a manastone then the manastone would pretty quickly be meaningless. Feel stoked Rogean threw ya a bone with the list system to give the casuals even a slight chance.

I think people are reading this and interpreting it as, "everyone will get whatever they want." As said, if tuned appropriately, the time spent to get an item should be roughly equal but with less of the bullshit that currently exists (e.g. DKP dumping by player A - key member of guild X - just before they /gquit for guild B, camping something for 20+ straight hours (e.g. Pained Soul, anyone?)). I personally have no interest in a Manastone, but reading post after post about people who are really hating the /list system, led me to think of alternatives to the current system(s).

I appreciate, at least, that some of the more recent responses seem more constructive. I think rather than saying, "This would never happen," it would be interesting to ask ourselves, "How would it be received if it did?" It's easy to form a simple opinion without giving something a chance.

[nenja]

Originally Posted by Nirgon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Shoulda made ToV and sea fury island PVP arena areas

Lol. This would be great.

[Swish]

Originally Posted by Nirgon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Things that have to exist because of the extreme toxicity of blue players

- nerfed sea furies
- rooted dragons
- /list

Red shouldn't have had seafury loot nerfed there, took a good pvp spot away.

[Rooj]

Remember in that other thread when I told you you were so incredibly wrong about this and you disagreed?
https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...&postcount=396
https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...&postcount=397

I hope you have changed your mind. Not only have you tried to bring entirely new mechanics into Classic Everquest, but you've tried to bring mechanics from modern MMOs to a community and game that generally has distaste for those mechanics. People didn't come here to play World of Warcraft or Guild Wars 2 (except you it seems).

Yes, I am telling you here and now, that most of these Everquest players would rather have the current List system rather than a modern Participation Trophy system. If you cannot comprehend that, then you don't comprehend Classic Everquest or old school MMOs in general.

Your suggestions also removes guilds competing for end-game mobs, which is basically all end-game even is on Everquest.

I just... I just don't get it. You have tried to completely and utterly change the foundation and spirit of Everquest in just a few paragraphs and I am truly astonished right now. Everquest is a TWENTY year old game that is still running official servers and the mechanics of loot and raiding on Live ARE STILL THE SAME TODAY.

[Nisrak]

Originally Posted by nenja [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I suppose that's a way of looking at it.
First, is this different from people running level 1 or equally low characters to a camp spot and looting an item on their "twink"? I don't think you can deny this happens currently

This is very different from me, as a level 1, following around someone I don't know and mooching off all of their kills. Every raid will have an army of newbies following it.

This idea would completely change the game. Tuning drop rates would be near impossible, but let's just say that you are able to tune them so that the same number of each loot item drops, on average. That means that, no matter who actually kills the mob, every single person who can get to the corpse has an equal change of getting loot. This is exactly the same as every person who gets to the corpse just doing a /random...

Let's think for a second about this in the context of ToV, for example. As ToV respawn timers near, every (even somewhat) serious player camps every single alt outside of ToV. When something spawns, everyone kills and it then every player repeatedly switches characters for a chance at loot. Now, we are talking easily 1000+ characters looting every dragon. If loot chance is tuned correctly, people who actually killed it now have a 1/1000 chance of getting an item (as does my level 1 alt who is camped outside).

Originally Posted by nenja [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In WOW, it looks like this is called Personal Loot and was introduced with Mists of Pandaria. It removed the need for guilds to have to deal with DKP systems, tracking, decay, etc. and complaints of bias. I can assure you that no one complained about the Personal Loot system and became the default for most.

WoW only has this within groups or raids. Loot is still limited to only players who participated in the kill (tagged it first). Also, almost all raid and group content in WoW is instanced, so it's a moot point.