Using a 2h weapon 1-60 as War or SK

[Troxx]

If you are a warrior relying on white aggro for threat, you are either a raid geared alt or so insanely twinked for your respective gear level that you could hold aggro with a blind fold on (ie NTOV weapons + 41% haste from 50+) that it doesn't matter. If you fit into this category of gear (for your level) - go for it! There are 2h weapons out there that might fit this bill, but for those who can obtain those weapons, this discussion is a moot point. You are 1000% overgeared for your content and your threat competitors.

Warrior threat for us mere mortals lives or dies with procs. Infestation, frostbringer, WESS, and lesser proc weapons. White damage just simply is not enough. You need procs ... but you need threat proc weapons that also have reasonable white damage baseline aggro.

Comparing the *best* white damage weapons in game to mid to mid-high tier tradable proc weapons?

Cheap tradable weapons (less than 9k for the set of WESS/FB) will yield vastly superior aggro to the highest ratio weapons available to warriors, even if the proc warrior has bad haste (24%) and the raid warrior or twink has better (41%).

2h is viable, but not ideal by any stretch.

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by Naethyn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Hate to break it to you Troxx, but a warrior with a 36% haste with out aggro everyone in a group using 21% without any proc weapons. The same goes for a 41% haste vs 36% haste group members. The problem is really good haste items aren't readily available. It is inaccurate to say warriors "need" procs. You just need better gear than the guys you are playing with.

Aye, can be mitigated by choosing your haste buff wisely though. If you have shit haste you absolutely have to be buddy buddy with as many group friendly enchanter as you can.

[Shinko]

Roll a non ogre sit in crip mode smash face wishing you were a ogre

Gg

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by Naethyn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Hate to break it to you Troxx, but a warrior with a 36% haste with out aggro everyone in a group using 21% without any proc weapons. The same goes for a 41% haste vs 36% haste group members. The problem is really good haste items aren't readily available. It is inaccurate to say warriors "need" procs. You just need better gear than the guys you are playing with.

You’re not breaking anything to me.

It’s a lot more complicated than just “he who has the highest haste holds the aggro”. Both at the group and the raid level other melee classes have better ratio weapons (hi there monk weapons) and aggro magnet special abilities (hi there backstab). Really good haste doesn’t level that playing field as you have to assume your group mates also have really good haste.

White damage is the backbone on which out aggro is generated but our white damage threat potential is outpaced by comparably geared monks and rogues and easily outpaced by casting and support classes with early intervention casts (tash/slow/etc). What allows is to establish and maintain a lead are our procs. This is not rocket science. It has been well established for literally 19 years (both live and here).

My 60 warrior has a pathetic 24% haste (soon to be 34%). I have no problems holding aggro off NToV rogues and monks not because I have really good haste (I don’t) or NToV weapons (I don’t) but because my primary hand 9/18 weapon has a 3 poison counter proc and my offhand has either a Turgurs level aggro proc or a ridiculous 4 poison counter + debuff + blind proc depending on what I’m using.

[enjchanter]

Should propose a new question

Why am I getting so much aggro as a monk / rogue and how can I fix dis

[Sonderbeast]

Originally Posted by Shinko [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Roll a non ogre sit in crip mode smash face wishing you were a ogre

Gg

I have never wished I was an ogre. Ever.

[Raev]

When I play Sakuragi I'm not really that concerned with the Monks and Rogues. It's their job to FD/evade once or twice per fight, especially if they have better weapons than I do. Even Rangers can use Jolt here and there.

The problem is the Shamans and especially the Enchanters. Both have high threat spells that need to be in as soon as possible and no way to drop threat. It's going to take about 30 seconds to build up enough threat for tash + slow with pure white damage even if you have NTOV weapons. Sakuragi's old school Epic/Shissar combo can cut that to 20 seconds. And yes, there is some randomness, but you have an 80% chance to proc in 30 seconds with max dex, so you're winning most of the time.

Of course the real solution is a Bioluminescent Orb.

[Jimjam]

Stand next to the shaman so mob doesn't zip around when they take aggro.

Also, has the fennin ro breastplate click been nerfed? It used to be HUGE aggro.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by Naethyn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The point I'm trying to make is there is more than one viable approach you can take and it is inaccurate to say warriors need proc weapons. If a warrior has a higher haste than the rogue and monk that warrior will not need procs to hold aggro.

And if the monk has an AC/SoS at medium high levels? Warrior ratios are far inferior to this. In the 50s level range how many rogues have epic (41% haste + massive backstabs)? This entire line of logic is asinine. Our weapon ratios are inferior. Our white damage is, unfortunately, not enough whether raid or group level of gear. On raids you have the benefit of mallet clicks. I raid main tanked the warrior class on live for a decade. I now have a 60 here. Compared to live after luclin era warriors on p99 are MORE reliant on procs, not less. This is not a new concept.

Originally Posted by Naethyn

Also, please consider that I've played both ways. The proc based build is definitely strongest from 50-59. Before that (1-49) the mobs die too fast for a proc to matter anyways. At 60, you can acquire enough gear to make it so you don't need procs by simply having a better haste.

You also once said bloodpoints were amazing aggro. They are not.

[Quizlop]

Originally Posted by Naethyn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Haste, white damage, and positioning is the key to holding aggro.

I don't play a warrior, but how does positioning affect how much hate you generate as a tank?