Seeking starting advice

[Bashez]

Originally Posted by Aeolwind [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Players, in general, should have more HP and mitigation than pets. AKA if a pet from a 30 mage is tanking as well as a 30 warrior; requiring less heals/attention then it's out of whack.

And now you've piqued my interest if this is actually occuring and casters are just being tight lipped thinking it's intended.

Pets should -never- be a replacement for a player. The mage should be the center point, not the pet. Necro's are a bit different as their pets were considered superior to mage pets.

Are you sure about this? I remember in classic I was inferior to pets in just about every conceivable way until getting really good gear. In duels 1v1 earth pets should be beating warriors at level 50. I remember being so mad when I got 50 and I couldn't even kill a pet.

[stormlord]

Originally Posted by yaaaflow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Thing is that it seems pets will never hold aggro over any PC within combat range of the mob, so outside of caster only groups their pets just won't tank.

This was one of the things that made me say "dynamic". Perhaps there's some kind of catch to the effectiveness of the mage pet. Or maybe most people just don't know that players are actually better tanks than mage pets now.

I've heard it said in this forum that a group of mages could clear guk. They said this before the melee fix.

I'll admit that in the level range 4-7 or so (this is the highest i am right now, i have several alts) mages are very good. Their pets are good dps. I think part of the problem is a lot of players aren't properly equipped for their level. I've seen level 6 warriors with just a couple peices of cloth armor and that's it (and no shield). Maybe this plays a role in player opinion (distorts it).

[stormlord]

Originally Posted by Bashez [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Are you sure about this? I remember in classic I was inferior to pets in just about every conceivable way until getting really good gear. In duels 1v1 earth pets should be beating warriors at level 50. I remember being so mad when I got 50 and I couldn't even kill a pet.

You were probably under-equipped.

However, this does seem to have been the majority viewpoint on this server (b4 melee fix). How can anyone not notice that.

But I ask again... even if mage pets are better tanks/dps than an average warrior at the same level, might there be some kind of dynamic that limits their effectiveness (like not holding aggro)?? Could a full group of mages outdo an optimal (diverse) group?

[Elerion]

Skeletons (with FS daggers) and to some extent earth pets did out-duel warriors at 50 in classic. Even decently geared ones.

That doesn't mean the pets were better tanks, it was mostly due to higher damage output.

[Tovok]

All mage groups have been good in various eras in certain niches. Just like wizard/ench AE groups were just the thing for some niches (Execution Trial for example). However, the game has always come down to high end grouping, where the holy trinity wins and pets are verboten due to pathing and mezzing; or raiding, where pets are verboten for the same reasons and mages are modrod factories with occasional CotH duties.

Necros I have less information about, but my impression is that in Kunark and Velious in particular they were mana feeders only, because pets were verboten, dots didn't stack, and resists were insane (SoV in particular).

IMHO, if pet classes are doing well now, it's probably because savvy players understand EQ the millionth time around and aren't about to play a melee class when they can't twink. Might as well enjoy it now, because pet classes will start their decline as soon as Kunark is released (sad to say).

I do hope to be proven wrong!

[stormlord]

Originally Posted by Tovok [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

All mage groups have been good in various eras in certain niches. Just like wizard/ench AE groups were just the thing for some niches (Execution Trial for example). However, the game has always come down to high end grouping, where the holy trinity wins and pets are verboten due to pathing and mezzing; or raiding, where pets are verboten for the same reasons and mages are modrod factories with occasional CotH duties.

Necros I have less information about, but my impression is that in Kunark and Velious in particular they were mana feeders only, because pets were verboten, dots didn't stack, and resists were insane (SoV in particular).

IMHO, if pet classes are doing well now, it's probably because savvy players understand EQ the millionth time around and aren't about to play a melee class when they can't twink. Might as well enjoy it now, because pet classes will start their decline as soon as Kunark is released (sad to say).

I do hope to be proven wrong!

The One. He will lead us to freedom from pet tyranny!

[EliteJackson]

From what I've seen the problem is really gear, I guess. There is just no way for a non-twink to get a remotely decent set of gear that I have seen. "Remotely decent" meaning "equal to a pet of the same level".

On my poor bastard of an SK at a whopping Sixth level I'm unable to out-aggro or out-mitigate a pet. And there is absolutely a MASSIVE difference in HP regen between the pet and my SK. Massively massive.

I've got a few pieces of leather armor on my SK that I actually ran over to him from my level 5/6 bard. These items dropped from orcs and such in Gfay. One, single item of use has dropped for my SK in Qeynos Hills or the Gnoll dungeon zone: A pair of cloth pants. That's it. Everything else I got from my bard or bought from a vendor and I've still got several slots of gear that are empty. That toon is totally broke, less than 2 plat, and takes more damage per swing than my level 6 necro's pet does by a long shot. The DPS isn't even comparable, the necro pet is far superior.

Now, as I mentioned, this is almost certainly a gearing issue. But I don't see how it could ever be reasonably expected for a starting melee character to measure up to a pet class in any way unless they are twinked out.

That's probably just the way old EQ was set up but it's essentially impossible for a new player to join the server and try to play a tank.

[Tovok]

Was this before or after the melee fix?

I made an ogre shaman last night (which I'm loving and looking forward to playing again soon), and he was absolutely tearing shit up as far as newbie melee is concerned. By level 3 I had a full set of cloth (nearly) from the lizard men, and a few rusties of each type to choose from.

Of course, as an ogre I started with 130 STR by default, which might help somewhat. I also made a point of putting 5 into AGI so I can get to the 75 AGI barrier to avoid the AC hit.

Not sure when SKs get bash, but be sure to equip a shield for it when you do. That extra few points of damage really counts at lower levels.

[Bubbles]

Originally Posted by Aeolwind [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Players, in general, should have more HP and mitigation than pets. AKA if a pet from a 30 mage is tanking as well as a 30 warrior; requiring less heals/attention then it's out of whack.

And now you've piqued my interest if this is actually occuring and casters are just being tight lipped thinking it's intended.

Pets should -never- be a replacement for a player. The mage should be the center point, not the pet. Necro's are a bit different as their pets were considered superior to mage pets.

So.. you weren't privy to the last two months when groups frolicked around forcing their melee to attack mobs with arrows?

Really?

REALLY?

REEEAAAALLLLLYYY?