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  #81  
Old 01-09-2021, 01:42 PM
Jibartik Jibartik is offline
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Moral of the story:

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  #82  
Old 01-09-2021, 01:46 PM
magnetaress magnetaress is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jibartik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Moral of the story:

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If it's a sponge bob square pants cup (I don't think it is) but if it is, you're doing somethin right.
  #83  
Old 01-09-2021, 02:43 PM
imperiouskitten imperiouskitten is offline
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Originally Posted by Lune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
You know, if you've got a problem with everyone you meet, if everyone but you is an asshole, chances are, you're the one that's the asshole. Consider that perhaps you should have sterilized yourself rather than procreate with meth-addled white trash wife (Projecting, anyone?) Future generations will treasure those genetics.
big bazingo doinked
  #84  
Old 01-09-2021, 03:29 PM
Blingy Blingy is offline
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tl;dr both sides are making massive assumptions about each other based on partial information from their favorite source of information.

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Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
I have a colleague from a relatively privileged background in middle England asked why ‘liberal’ is used as a dirty word in the states.
From my experience it can be used in many different ways. Some people use it as an insult, others a compliment and even some as either an adjective or political stance. There are 4 different things at play IMO; two are beneficial IMO and two are why we're currently in the shit-show the world is watching unfold.

Thing one: A liberal will define what they perceive themselves to be, their stances and expectations of society either through private enterprise or public/gov't intervention. Example: Nationalized healthcare for all paid for with tax money. Everybody gets access to professional health services. This is simply one example (there are a lot more, this is simply one topic among many).

Thing two: A conservative will define what they perceive themselves to be similar to above. However many conservatives want to limit the amount of gov't intervention (perceived as hand-outs). Using the example above, people that want to spend their hard earned money on healthcare can choose to purchase insurance but they object to being forced to pay taxes for it (weather they are directly paying taxes for it or not).

Thing three and four are nearly identical but also polar opposites at the same time. Both conservatives and liberals project what they believe the opposite side stands for based on what they've been exposed to through various places (ie, websites, social media, broadcast news, etc.)

Since you mentioned "liberal is used as a dirty word" first I'll offer what my conservative friends use liberal as (and please note, this is paraphrasing what my conservative friends say; NOT what I believe). Liberals fight for equality on all fronts through forced gov't intervention. Liberals don't think anybody should be held accountable for poor decisions in their past which leads to problems today and the future. Liberals want public funding for mentally ill people that are mentally ill because of decisions made in the past. The downtrodden made their bed (ie, did drugs in highschool) and have fried their brain to the point of not being able to hold down any sort of job; why should people that made good decisions throughout their life be made to support others bad decisions. Liberals also think anybody that "succeeded" in life only got there through liberal/social programs; not their own hard work. A conservative that works 80 hours a week and makes a lot of money should be able to keep and use their money as they see fit; not have it taxed into oblivion.

Conservatives calling liberals "snowflakes" mostly stems from the belief that liberals call whatever gov't agency/authority to take care of any situation rather than deal with the situation themselves. Many conservatives would rather hash things out between themselves rather than call the police, city council, code enforcement, *insert any gov't agency here*. Conservatives think liberals will instantly call whichever outside gov't agency if there's any chance of an unfavorable resolution.

The flip side to the above two paragraphs are what liberals perceive conservatives to be. Once again, paraphrasing what my liberal friends say about conservatives (NOT what I personally believe). Conservatives are a bunch of uneducated gun happy gruff assholes that wouldn't know social graces if it bit them in the ass. Conservatives just want to drive their earth destroying monster trucks and hunt everything into extinction. None of them care about poor people and don't understand how bad it is to tell people "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" when they've never needed help. Liberal cities also support their back-woods ways that let them have great public education, good roads and all the other amenities that go along with liberal policies. They're simply too stupid to admit they don't know how good they have it because liberals are paying taxes to support their way of life.

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Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
He is confused how the dictionary definition of liberal (social welfare, freedoms, open business) could be a bad thing in the country of liberty.
There is a dictionary definition and a social definition; they don't always agree with each other.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
I’m lucky enough to had the opportunity to witness discussion from such honourable ‘lib hatin merkins’ as populate the p99 game and boards so did my best to offer an answer:

“Personally, I believe in the value of social programs. Not particularly due to morale or welfare arguments, but because I believe they are effective economic investments.

However, I feel many people that support such programs can be a little tone deaf or condescending (“why can’t people against these programs see they would be better off”) and fail to understand why someone that would benefit from it could be against it.

I’m involved in a computer game community which happens to include a good number of rural Americans, people that I never would have normally been able to converse with.

From my discussions with them, and from my knowledge of the emotional effects of unemployment from my company partner’s doctorate, these people are not interested in being financially better off due to social hand outs. They want real employment and economic opportunities, similar to how there used to be industrial and agricultural opportunity previously in the states. They don’t want to be non-contributors dependant on subsidies from blue city taxes. They want to be independent and in control of their lives.

For this reason, rightly or wrongly, they conflate liberal social welfare with a suppression of their ability to support themselves as individuals.”

I hope i put forward a decent, good faith representation for at least some ‘lib haters’ and was hoping you can either call me out if i am totally off the mark, or provide additional reasoning why some view ‘lib’ as a dirty word.

Please keep it civil and clean.
This sums up things pretty well IMO. It would have been nice if things remained civil but oh well.

There's a lot more to what I've been exposed to and how I feel but this is turning into a novel already.
  #85  
Old 01-09-2021, 04:35 PM
Jimjam Jimjam is online now
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Great post Blingy, thank you for expanding.
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