Charm - Charisma - ENC/DRU/NEC

[commongood]

I apologize as this has no doubt been addressed (likely numerous times) in the past, but after dredging around the search function of this forum for a while now I gave up and decided to post this.

I would like some clarification on charming in EQ.

1) What checks are made each server tick that can cause charm to break? MR, level of charmer vs level of charmee and charisma? Anything else? What matters more?

2) What effect does charisma alone have on the likelihood of a charm break for an enchanter?

3) What about charisma for non-enchanter charmers like necromancers and druids? Does charisma matter here and if so is it to the same extent as with encs?

[branamil]

I don't have the exact formula, although I bet it could be reverse engineered with some tests; but my feeling is that charm duration is 85% level, 10% MR, and 5% charisma

[Triiz]

Originally Posted by branamil [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't have the exact formula, although I bet it could be reverse engineered with some tests; but my feeling is that charm duration is 85% level, 10% MR, and 5% charisma

This seems about right to me, close anyways. I would maybe guess 75% level, 15% MR, 10% CHA. The difference between low 100's CHA (charming on a CR) and 255 CHA is pretty noticeable, at least 10% difference I would guess.

Enchanter charm seems to pretty much always land on a blue con tashed charmable trash mobs if it's not above the spells max level i.e. Allure (charm up to 51) seems to only get resisted on lvl 52+ mobs, but it may land on a lvl 51 mob and break in a few seconds on the next tick based on Level/MR/CHA. There are probably exceptions, but for 99% of blue con trash mobs that's been my experience. Obviously probably different if you're level 49 trying to charm a level 51 but I never tried that.

Druid charm is just Level/MR as far as I know, otherwise Halfling druids with like 50 CHA would be terrible charmers. I think Necro is also just level/MR but that's just what I've been told.

Originally Posted by thebutthat [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Bards work under the same formula, but since there charm is only a short duration the additional cha check is less important.

I said it in another thread a few days ago, but I disagree with this. I know it was like that on Live, but I've only played a bard on p99. I have a 60 bard with low CHA in regular gear and over thousands of charms of lvl 45+ mobs I've never once had charm break on the first tick like it does sometimes on my 255 CHA Enchanter. Hard to say if there's a CHA check to see if the initial charm gets resisted or not.

[thebutthat]

Originally Posted by Triiz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I said it in another thread a few days ago, but I disagree with this. I know it was like that on Live, but I've only played a bard on p99. I have a 60 bard with low CHA in regular gear and over thousands of charms of lvl 45+ mobs I've never once had charm break on the first tick like it does sometimes on my 255 CHA Enchanter. Hard to say if there's a CHA check to see if the initial charm gets resisted or not.

I have. It's less noticeable usually, but I have had mobs drop after one tick on the charm. Most memorably it happened to me in the hole. I kept getting charm breaks after a tick or two.

Related note, I'm under the impression a CHA check helps your chances to successfully hold. Since the target that's charmed has to beat a Level check, a MR check, and a charisma check. Having the extra check in place gives you an additional chance for the mob to night beat the check and remained charmed. So not having a CHA check would mean more breaks, not less. Maybe there's something fundamentally different about bard charms, but in my experience they do sometimes break early.

[Troxx]

Bard charm is so incredibly short (3-4 ticks) that charisma really doesn't matter. In regular gear my bard's charisma is in well below 150. I can remember only a very few instances that that charm broke before duration expired. I expect there is a charisma check, but given the short duration your chances of failing level + resist + charisma check in 3-4 ticks is so improbable that you can count on it happening so infrequently that it's completely negligible.

[Jmcwrestling]

Originally Posted by branamil [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't have the exact formula, although I bet it could be reverse engineered with some tests; but my feeling is that charm duration is 85% level, 10% MR, and 5% charisma

After many hours spent enchanting I would highly agree with this.

I rarely even bother to tash my pet honestly and I don't feel it makes a big difference until the level gap is smaller.

That being said, I do always run 255 cha but have had many times where I forgot to recast and didn't notice a change

[thebutthat]

After spending quite a bit of time as Necro/Bard/Enchanter and from what I've researched and observed here's how I understand it:

Necro's get 2 roll checks. Level and MR. If the mob doesn't roll over both checks, then the mob stays charmed.

Enchanter gets an additional roll check, with charisma. The mob has to roll over MR, Level, and the charisma check to break the charm. The third check, is just an additional chance the enchanter has for the charm not to break, making their charms more efficient. Bards work under the same formula, but since there charm is only a short duration the additional cha check is less important.

The cha check isn't applied to druids/necro's so there's a higher chance for their charms to break per tick. Level range is the biggest factor for any charm class as the MR and Cha checks respectively, seem to be easier to be passed.

What I'm unsure of is if charisma checks are applied to necro lulls, because mine crit fail a ton as a necro. I've haven't cared enough to throw on a small cha set and test it but if it did effect it, it might be worth throwing on some cha when soloing some higher end stuff like HS south on a necro.

Again, this is just info I've gathered from other players or browsed through on the forums. In no way am I claiming it as fact, but it's the assumptions I've operated under.

[commongood]

Originally Posted by thebutthat [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

After spending quite a bit of time as Necro/Bard/Enchanter and from what I've researched and observed here's how I understand it:

Necro's get 2 roll checks. Level and MR. If the mob doesn't roll over both checks, then the mob stays charmed.

Enchanter gets an additional roll check, with charisma. The mob has to roll over MR, Level, and the charisma check to break the charm. The third check, is just an additional chance the enchanter has for the charm not to break, making their charms more efficient. Bards work under the same formula, but since there charm is only a short duration the additional cha check is less important.

The cha check isn't applied to druids/necro's so there's a higher chance for their charms to break per tick. Level range is the biggest factor for any charm class as the MR and Cha checks respectively, seem to be easier to be passed.

What I'm unsure of is if charisma checks are applied to necro lulls, because mine crit fail a ton as a necro. I've haven't cared enough to throw on a small cha set and test it but if it did effect it, it might be worth throwing on some cha when soloing some higher end stuff like HS south on a necro.

Again, this is just info I've gathered from other players or browsed through on the forums. In no way am I claiming it as fact, but it's the assumptions I've operated under.

Thanks a lot Butthat. Was under the impression that this was how things worked but nice to get someone that can back it up. Would be nice if anyone with more data on necro undead-lull can chime in?

[planarity]

Originally Posted by thebutthat [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What I'm unsure of is if charisma checks are applied to necro lulls, because mine crit fail a ton as a necro. I've haven't cared enough to throw on a small cha set and test it but if it did effect it, it might be worth throwing on some cha when soloing some higher end stuff like HS south on a necro.

This is exactly what I observed. With all the -cha necro items, it's easy to have zero or negative cha. If you do this, you'll see that virtually every lull resist is a crit. I am certainly convinced that cha affects necro/sk undead lulls, and presumably druid/ranger animal lulls as well.

[Xap]

I can't speak for ENC/NEC, but Druid charms are rolled on level/MR only I believe.