Thought Experiment: How Could Rotations Be Competitive?

[Ooloo]

Originally Posted by Reiwa [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The rodent is proud of himself.

Why shouldn't he be? Sorry you don't got mouse maze treats.

[Elizondo]

Originally Posted by Ooloo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Jib nobody is talking about cheating though. Obviously I have nothing but sympathy for the people who have to deal with petitions about cheating in the game, but the idea is that *they are cheating*. This isn't 'nam, there are rules. Abide the rules and see who wins, it really is a primal and timeless human instinct.

Tell Walter, I'm sorry

[Ooloo]

Also I do like OP's idea..

[Reiwa]

Originally Posted by Ooloo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why shouldn't he be? Sorry you don't got mouse maze treats.

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[JDAm0nk]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's less about competition--I've never seen a losing side say they love competition--so much as it's about the feeling of "winning" something and having control over one's virtual life. I know many (hundreds, at this point) of the top-end players who've come and gone pretty well after going on 13 years here. The large majority are exactly what you'd expect--drug addicts, mentally ill, drunkards, forever-aloner's, divorcees, a few high-functioning mentally challenged, under- or unemployed, layoffs, the occasional retiree, a smattering of college students, and generally people who's real lives are trainwrecks or at least incomplete/missing something in some fashion. In many cases they desperately need EQ because it's a refuge and it's the only bright spot they have. So I'm okay with letting them have it, they need it more than I do. I won't name names since I do actually like quite a few of these people, and for a *lot* of them P99 was a transitory thing and they later pulled their lives together. I'm not going to kick a man for being down at some point because most of us go through hard times sooner or later.

Well said!

I am also sympathetic to a lot of these issues. The last couple of years especially have been extremely difficult for a lot of people. It's understandable to want a bit of an escape. I'm never going to judge anyone for "no-lifing" EQ. If there is a safe space for obsessive EQ nerdery, these communities should be it IMO. But I do think that P99's community is really, really selling EQemu short. Not so much because the devs (seemingly) want to keep their database + code changes private and closed sourced. More so because there is almost a Stockholm Syndrome here where people are firmly fixed that this is the one, true way to (properly) play EQ. And the project's longevity and popularity has made it to where a lot of people are starting to associate that P99 is 'Classic EQ.'

So while I'm happy to let them "have" their server, I'm a little resentful of their broader claims to the franchise and/or community. My experience with EQ has ran from 2000-2001 & then 2020-now, so I have the nostalgic hook but there is a lot to EQ that I've never seen. I think a lot of people like me are drawn into P99 - Live is so overwhelming and intimidating - and although P99 can be fun, it doesn't have to be the end all be all. You can enjoy EverQuest without having to dedicate your life to it and you do not have to play on an overcrowded server with a greedy culture and limited content. Even if you're chasing the classic EQ dragon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[loramin]

Originally Posted by JDAm0nk [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Well said!

I am also sympathetic to a lot of these issues. The last couple of years especially have been extremely difficult for a lot of people. It's understandable to want a bit of an escape. I'm never going to judge anyone for "no-lifing" EQ. If there is a safe space for obsessive EQ nerdery, these communities should be it IMO. But I do think that P99's community is really, really selling EQemu short. Not so much because the devs (seemingly) want to keep their database + code changes private and closed sourced. More so because there is almost a Stockholm Syndrome here where people are firmly fixed that this is the one, true way to (properly) play EQ. And the project's longevity and popularity has made it to where a lot of people are starting to associate that P99 is 'Classic EQ.'

So while I'm happy to let them "have" their server, I'm a little resentful of their broader claims to the franchise and/or community. My experience with EQ has ran from 2000-2001 & then 2020-now, so I have the nostalgic hook but there is a lot to EQ that I've never seen. I think a lot of people like me are drawn into P99 - Live is so overwhelming and intimidating - and although P99 can be fun, it doesn't have to be the end all be all. You can enjoy EverQuest without having to dedicate your life to it and you do not have to play on an overcrowded server with a greedy culture and limited content. Even if you're chasing the classic EQ dragon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think it's the single boxing, not a slavish adherence to R&N's beliefs.

95% of this server (in my completely unscientific estimation) doesn't share the beliefs of its founders. The majority of the player base wants Luclin (and PoP!), wants instancing, wants DoT damage displayed, etc.

But no other EQ Emu server offers single boxing, and every non-single-boxed server is ... a bunch of nerds automating their playing of multiple boxes (which isn't really EQ).

[Ooloo]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think it's the single boxing, not a slavish adherence to R&N's beliefs.

95% of this server (in my completely unscientific estimation) doesn't share the beliefs of its founders. The majority of the player base wants Luclin (and PoP!), wants instancing, wants DoT damage displayed, etc.

But no other EQ Emu server offers single boxing, and every non-single-boxed server is ... a bunch of nerds automating their playing of multiple boxes (which isn't really EQ).

I know what you mean but I don't think it's close to 95%. I think much closer to a 50/50 split.

I mean some people on the server want luclin, and some people meticulously research what isn't classic and report it like a hall monitor.

I definitely don't want luclin. I could maybe go for PoP with heavy modification like no pok. I always thought PoP made more sense as an expansion after Velious; they added two new planes in Velious, it's just logical that the next expansion would be ALL new planes instead of mooncats and weird sci-fi crossover concepts.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Ooloo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I know what you mean but I don't think it's close to 95%. I think much closer to a 50/50 split.

I mean some people on the server want luclin, and some people meticulously research what isn't classic and report it like a hall monitor.

I definitely don't want luclin. I could maybe go for PoP with heavy modification like no pok. I always thought PoP made more sense as an expansion after Velious; they added two new planes in Velious, it's just logical that the next expansion would be ALL new planes instead of mooncats and weird sci-fi crossover concepts.

Right, well 95% was just my guesstimate, and obviously it will vary depending on which exact issue you pick (eg. PoP likely has greater support than Luclin).

But my point was that we don't all play on P99 (and ignore the rest of EQ Emu) because we agree about everything with R&N ... we do it because this is the only server that actually feels like EverQuest, and not a "how good are you at programming bots?" server.

[zati]

that's tall order for a game that wasn't even suppose to be competitive in the first place by the original creators. racing not even classic. in 99' multiple live servers with over 1k population and racing for "first-time-ever kills" was the so-called 'competition'. end game on p99 is jus an evolution of neckbeards setting the rules on the game board

not saying it ain't impossible, but its 2022 and since the server came out there hasn't been a great solution besides FTE it or a full-time GM babysitting a bunch of 30-50 yr olds. without gm intervention to code in some non-classic stuff you'll just end up right back to fte's or some troublesome intricate rules that would put off any new raiders from wanting to play. (too many rules to follow)

my stance is.. If you wanna really truly desire to raid endgame either join the top 2(3?) guilds, accept the unfavorable fate of tracking,batphones,dkp hoarders,neckbeards etc. stop trying to make an unfair game-"fair" you'll just break the thing is the sad truth after playing on this server for 7 yrs lol

[zati]

going off topic here sorta:

we need server-wide fte/kill messages that can be filtered in its own channel. there's no point to keeping spawn timers when quakes r abundant and dbl fte is a concern. it will give neckbeards something to feel good about, spawntimers for not-so competitive guilds, verifying no dbl fte by same guild occurs w/o gm investigation. /shrug