Spells: Torpor Mana Expenditure

[Byrjun]

Don't think P99 was ever intended to emulate the Test server.

[Peekae]

Yeah was looking through the posts but its hard to tell. It kinda sounds like its coming from a test server build maybe? idk if these were live changes or not however I didn't play a shaman in kunark so I'm not sure.

[Daldaen]

Originally Posted by Byrjun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Don't think P99 was ever intended to emulate the Test server.

Dunno we have quotes in May/June 2000 and Jan 2001. That's an awful long time to be on test.

[thieros]

Just a general question, no facts in those post:

If I self torpor that burns 390 mana (with proposed 50 manadrain/tick) for 1200 hp. in the length of a torpor, one can cast

5 canni 3 &5 canni 2 = 410 mana @ -835 hp. = 20 mana mana @ +365hp after torpor

5 canni 4 & 5 canni 3 = 655 mana @ -1240hp = 265 mana gain @ -40hp after torpor

So to torpor midfight if tanking a slowed mob...

If thats how torpor was back in the day, how the heck did shamans solo lodizal? It doesnt seem like it would be efficient enough to manage this fight...

[Daldaen]

Either Canni IV, or it was removed by the time shamans solo'd him.

5 Canni 4s is 740 HP for 410 mana. Recovering all the mana you lost Torporing and still gaining 560 HP for free.

Where are the posts of him being soloed pre-Luclin though?

[Byrjun]

I played a shaman during this time and I don't remember Torpor draining mana. I started around the time Kunark released and probably didn't get 60+Torpor until early Velious, so it's entirely possible that I started using Torpor right after it was un-nerfed. However, as I will get to there are posts from 2002 still claiming that Torpor drains mana and that definitely wasn't the case.

Also, there was very little in-game info as to what a spell did back then, so the only way to tell was to read sites like Caster's Realm (which pulled from the spdat file) or cast the spell and watch what happened. It's possible that I didn't realize this drained mana, but I doubt it.

Now, as for the "evidence."

The first quote is someone saying they "heard" it drains mana, and it's from 2002. Torpor most definitely did not drain mana in 2002, and every other reply is pure conjecture based on the Everlore description.

Next issue: You have some people saying it can't be used as a self-heal, and others saying it can, within the same frame of time. You are, of course, cherry picking responses to post here.

01/28/2001 (the one you posted):

With the new mana changes this spell is now a melee only spell and maybe warrior only at that. This spell has now been removed as a solo heal spell since with the 400 mana cost to a self cast its only slightly better than SH. Anyways a great spell for use on the warrior or OOM hybrid. Zag

06/04/2001 (the one you ignored):

Sigh... think a little. This is one of the best shaman solo spell, when used as a downtime reducer.

Regrowth, put your Fungi on, Cannib like crazy to 1 bub of health, then cast Torpor. Repeat and rinse until an extremely fast full mana.

Very much like a cleric using a manastone and CH, except that you aren't limited to the old world.

06/16/2001 (the other one you ignored):

THIS SPELL IS INCREDIBLE, By Jamalia (6/16/2001)

You can heal so much for so little with this spell. Shaman who know what they are doing can kill just about anything by themselves using this their epic a jaundiced bone bracer, slow and a pet.

So... moving on to khanable's post. There's about three people talking about Torpor draining mana, and they all seem to be misinformed about something. For example, one guy mentions Superior Healing sucks because you can't channel level 53 spells. What? I don't know what's up with these guys, it's entirely possible that they're noobs regurgitating info they read on Everlore.

Locust linked the patch notes... but they're completely unrelated. Those patch notes are about Torpor stacking with other spells, but nothing about a mana drain component.

Originally Posted by Daldaen

The facts currently are that it sucked mana back in May 2000 (mid-Kunark) and Jan 2001 (early-Velious). The mana sucked seems to all point towards 50/tick leading to 200 total for the player it's cast on. When cast on a melee it is the same as it is currently.

Still trying to find these "facts" you mention. In fact the post immediately before this one mentions that the Caster's Realm spell info contradicts you, since it's listed as gain 1200 HP, drain 50 mana. Not 50 mana per tick.

So, that's the info you're presenting so far. Contradictory statements, and people who obviously don't understand EQ mechanics claiming this spell had a mana drain. Shaky sources at best.

My conclusion is still that the Everlore and Caster's Realm sites pulled spell info from the Test server spdat file, then every level 10 forum warrior read that and started taking it as gospel. There's no posts by level 60 shamans confirming this nerf. If better evidence is presented I will support a Torpor nerf, but at this point it feels like lazy agenda pushing.

[Daldaen]

But why does the shaman need to gain mana?

He need to Malo, slow and then epic DoT, pet, JBB, melee. The only mana use would be recasting slow every 5-6min. He would just need to Canni enough to maintain mana for torpor. Doesn't need to gain above and beyond that.

Add in regen items like fungi, DS potions, Regrowth and clarity... I don't see why it becomes undoable.

But again. The posts about him being soloed are Luclin. Which includes stacking FT, better gear, better spells and most important horse. Which allows him to med while standing. Plus I think Torpor was reverted to the version we have here some time early Luclin or late Velious but still am searching.

[Daldaen]

Probably the most important thing from this thread is that torpor should remove all Runspeed buffs. Sounds like it should root and not snare too? Possibly people just exaggerating the extent of the snare or encumbered people.

[Daldaen]

November 2000 Patch

The spell Torpor received an unintentional reduction in effectiveness.

Possibly it was temporarily broken here? But the timeline doesn't make sense much. If there are quotes from May 2000 and January 2001, but the patch would make it seem it was an overnight thing patched quickly. Reduction of effectiveness is pretty vague too.

[Byrjun]

The best source of information for shaman stuff at this time was the Shaman's Crucible. The earliest that the wayback machine will go is March 6th, 2001.

http://web.archive.org/web/200103060...s/level_60.htm

Torpor
Mana: 200
Duration: ~24s
Torpor will regenerate 1200 HP over 4 ticks, however while in effect it will snare you, and reduce your attack speed (note: Some Shaman have reported Torpor doing 1540 over 5 ticks).

Also worth mentioning that this same listing reports that Avatar is supposed to overwrite the Strength line, but I don't think this happens on P99. Worth looking into further.